NDTV: Good evening and welcome to Your Call. Joining me tonight is a man who is currently rewriting all the rules of politics in Pakistan. The man, who is currently the country's most popular political leader according to recent polls, Imran Khan. Imran Khan, thanks very much for joining me tonight. Imran you could conceivably return to India as the next Prime Minister of Pakistan.
Imran Khan: I think we have, my party's poised, in fact I will go a step further, unless we make blunders nothing can stop the party from winning. Because the young people in Pakistan, which is the majority, have decided on a change, so therefore they have identified Tehreek-e-Insaaf, PTI my party, for change. Now unless we, the image of the candidate does not suit the image of the party which is for change, is the only way we will not win.
NDTV: So you are the right man, at the right place, at the right time.
Imran Khan: Well, Insaaf is the idea of whose time it comes.
NDTV: It's interesting as you mentioned corruption, and this has been really a main mantra really of your party, or election campaign is anti-corruption, India is going through similar, in the sense, where ruling government is battling with the same allegations of corruption and the Opposition is also facing similar allegations. Do you see similarities in the two very different struggles the countries are facing?
Imran Khan: Remember corruption is what makes the third world. If you look at Transparency International, this NGO, which publishes every year the table for the most corrupt government and the cleanest government, and if you look at the table, the most prosperous countries are the least corrupt and the best government, and the poorest countries are the most corrupt ones. So it's got nothing to do with your resources. Corruption destroys a country, it destroys the government system and when the government system goes it doesn't matter if you are sitting on oil like Nigeria, you still have masses of poor people.
NDTV: But often and Indian politicians often pride themselves with the fact that look, at least India is not like Pakistan, they would claim that our democracy is a success story, look at what is happening in Pakistan, they have no real democracy. The Army can step in any time. The late Brijesh Mishra told me does VK Singh think that he is in the Pakistan, when there was tension between him and the ruling government. From the Pakistani perspective how do you see that take?
Imran Khan: Well I'm afraid and it's sad to say, but to some extent it's right. Pakistan's democratic system never got going. Each time when the political government trounced, the Army in our democratic system didn't involve India. On the other hand the democracy got embedded, narrowed, stayed there for a long time. So the system flourished and our Pakistan great leader Qaid-e-Aazam died immediately after partition, after independence, so they did not have the leader of stature, so hence we are stuck with the musical chairs. Politicians filling, Army coming back, and the fact it was Army rule. We never had politicians who came and would be nurtured by the Army so natural leadership never evolved. But now we are in an incredible situation. For the first time you are seeing, in the worst of times and the best of times, we are actually seeing a general democracy about to explode.
NDTV: And you don't think the Army, the establishment can stop that, in the sense because people accused you to be more close to the Army?
Imran Khan: Well the ones who accused me was this party PMLN, and lo and behold there was this famous case by Azhar Khan, which was in the Supreme Court, where the ISI has funded some politician's party, and guess which party they have funded, PMLN, who have accused me of being funded by the party. So you know what they say, it takes a thief to catch a thief, because the thief they think is similar. He thinks he knows everyone, he knows how the thief thinks. So they thought we were also were backed by the ISI. But no one has understood this phenomenon, this massive change, which started at the ground level and then suddenly exploded in this massive public rally. It's actually a politically aware public thanks to this electronic media, which is vibrant. For the first time we have television with chat shows, you have the prime time television, political current affair programmes and secondly the social media amongst the young people, like in the Arab Spring. It caused such political awareness that now you are seeing a completely new Pakistan, and the old politician can't come to terms with it because they are still stuck in the time warp.
NDTV: It's interesting because when you use age in that sense, Bilawal Bhutto is a very young President of the Pakistan People's Party, you don't think he will more naturally appeal to the youth than you?
Imran Khan: Bilawal has hardly spent any time in Pakistan; he can barely speak Urdu. He does not know Pakistan. He has inherited a party on a piece of a paper. An 18 year old being made Co-chairperson of a party, it violates all democratic norms so it's exactly against we all are fighting for. We wanted genuine democracy. This is actually more like a monarchy. In fact Prince Charles will be better equipped to take on after the Queen than say Bilawal after Benazir.
NDTV: Dynasty is the reality in the sub-continental politics.
Imran Khan: It violates the basis of democracy you see. Why did democracy come in, because basically monarchy degenerated; just because one king is exceptionally talented or he struggled in life and he has achieved great things doesn't mean the son is going to do the same. What makes a leader? He comes through the struggle. It's the struggle that develops the leader, where he can stand pressure. The greatest quality of the leader he can take pressure in crisis; he stands like a Churchill did once; so if a leader has not faced pressure in his life, he has led a life full of comfort, how can he be suddenly handed the country's destiny? Just to give you an example both Benazir and Nawab Sharif, the reason why they failed, one of the reasons why they failed, their first job is to be a Prime Minister. They have never done anything in their life and how can you be a leader if you have never done anything in your life.
NDTV: But in that sense people would say you are cricketer and you went into social work and charity. You've been in politics but not that successfully as in the last decade, what equips you?
Imran Khan: Well number one I built an institution. You see a country is all about building institution, strengthening institutions, seeing how they work. So I built the best institution in Pakistan and in the last three years it's consistently won awards for the best managed non-corporate institution in Pakistan. I have built a university. Now the first university out in rural areas, but I mean compared to me hardly any politician has ever done anything. Even as a cricketer at least I achieved, I competed. These guys have done nothing. They didn't have a job in their life. Most of them have not done a job in their lives. So how do you expect them to run a country? If you do not understand how to run an institution you cannot run a country.
NDTV: Well Imran, as you said those who have laughed you are I think, now are eating their words in many senses. I have some questions. As I said a man who is a potential Prime Minister of Pakistan, former Chief Minister of J&K and Cabinet Minister Farooq Abdullah has this question to ask you.
Farooq Abdullah: Imran if you come to power in Pakistan what steps you would take to improve relationships between India and Pakistan? Also will you bring those people responsible for crime in Mumbai to book, so that people in the subcontinent realise that you mean business when you say you want to fight terror?
Imran Khan: My friend Farooq, all I can say to him is that my Party has taken a decision that it's time now to have a completely new relation with India. And I hope you know the Indian, certainly the Indian public realises, the young people in India realise that the dividend of peace, the so enormous, I mean if we have peace, this China, the fastest growing economy on one side of Pakistan is the whole, the greatest resource of energy; on the other side of Pakistan India, one of the biggest economies on the other side; I mean if we have peace this could be the fastest growing place in the world, the happening place in the world. The mere fact that we have not been able to sort out our relations and we have this mistrust and we blame each other for everything, Pakistan blames India and Baluchistan Mumbai, and other things. India blames Pakistan, this mistrust we have to have a new relationship. This is my conviction. I'm not making any political statement. I'm not going to get votes in India, but yes, this is my conviction it's time to look ahead in the larger picture. And so that's number one. Number two when he talks about of bringing those criminals of Mumbai to justice it's my conviction that time has come in Pakistan that we should. When we treat terrorism as the whole, because I remember Pakistan is the one who is suffering from terrorism the most, we have lost around fifty thousand people in terrorist attacks; so the time has come now again for Pakistan to completely review the way we have dealt with the militant groups in our country, because it is now having an impact. Pakistan can't go on as it is, and I'm not saying a group, which India is worried about groups; I'm talking about groups within operating within Pakistan, Karachi for instance, the three major parties patronized the militant group. Karachi is up in flames. Businesses are leaving. Karachi is our financial hub. Every day there are about 10 to 15 people targeted, killed in Karachi. So a country just cannot go as it is. So therefore first we intend to pull out of this US war and terror that will take with it a narrative jihad from the militants. The moment the jihad from the militants are taken away we mobilise our tribal people to reclaim the tribal area, because the only reason they do not take on the militants is because they do not fight a mujahedeen. They are very conservative and religious people. The moment the jihad narrative goes, the moment we disengage from the US war, won't allow any drone attacks, won't take any money from the US, and then we ask the tribal people to reclaim the land and they will easily do it. About 8-900 thousand armed tribals, as opposed to 20 -30 thousand militants. So they reclaim the land and then return inwards and deal with all the sort of militant groups, some nurtured by us during the Afghan jihad in the '80s, just Pakistan has to deal with them and weaponise them.
NDTV: But in that sense till Pakistan achieves this, which could well be a long term solution, for India the two red flags that remain of Hafeez Sayeed who we consider to be the master mind behind the attacks is roaming free in Pakistan and also Dawood Ibrahim, who the Home Minister said again, is in safe haven in Pakistan. On these specific individuals, what is your stand?
Imran Khan: We take names of them and passing judgment on them because India feels them as terrorists, this is not the way to go about. I would be someone who believes in the rule of law. We would insist that anyone who indulges in terrorist attacks in Pakistan, or outside, must be brought to justice in the Pakistan courts. Lots of terrorists haven't been brought to justice. Most of the people who are involved in 40 thousand, 50 thousand people killed through terrorism haven't been brought to justice. Not even sectarian terrorists have been brought to justice. The other day about 29 Shias were pulled out of buses and shot in the head. We haven't caught those guys. Therefore we need to strengthen the rule of law and we need to strengthen the prosecution. We need to strengthen the justice system, but before all that we need to pull out of the US war, because what is complicating things for Pakistan is because Pakistan Army and Security Forces are perceived as mercenary army of the US. They have declared jihad on Pakistan. So the security agencies are protecting themselves. So how can they protect the people? So once you pull out you deal with the various groups. So if you strengthen your justice system, I think we will eventually get a control over all these. So who is responsible for attacks on India, attacks in Pakistan or outside should be brought to justice because Pakistan cannot go on as it is.
NDTV: Do you accept the Indian narrative that Pakistan is not doing enough to tackle cross border terror and it is an example of what you have cited. Would you accept that narrative?
Imran Khan: There is hardly any cross border terrorism now. I don't think India has talked about the cross border terrorism in Kashmir. Only sticking point is the Mumbai thing. I think the Indians should not pressurise the Pakistan Government to take any extra judicial steps. Because remember you create the martyrs, the more you follow the law, the more you de-mystify criminals, the more you create this extra judicial stuff, they become martyrs. I always compare Osama Bin Laden and Saddam Hussein. Saddam Hussein went through the deep process of law, hardly anyone talks about Saddam Hussein. Osama from the day, the way he was shot dead he has become a cult with certain groups. And it's not helped the cause of terrorism.
NDTV: The worry in India remains the role of the ISI. Our perception would be that ISI will still see India as the enemy number one; in that sense we aren't talking about, as the former Home Minister Mr Chidambaram said, state players, when we, India, talk about state players. Do you accept perhaps there's some truth there?
Imran Khan: What has happened in the past, obviously India has its suspicions. Pakistan has its. Don't forget that whenever there's something in Pakistan they blame RAW for it, so both the governments blame each other. I am talking about new relationship. I think this is all about past, that the idea is to move forward. ISI is part of the Pakistan's Army it's not going to act independently in Pakistan. I think the Pakistan Army too now wants a difference the way Pakistan is being governed. It has to be governed the way it has never been governed before. And I think the army accepts it because the country is facing crisis of mammoth proportions now. I mean we are looking at facing bankruptcy. And I think they will back a government, which can do whatever it can do to fix the governance system and somehow make Pakistan solvent.
NDTV: And talks about new language of peace, well, let's go across to some people who want to ask you questions from India and you may not get votes here but will ask you questions. Let's go across Srinagar where some people have questions for you.
Questioner: Salaam alekum Imran Sir, this is Behraan from Kashmir. Sir
agar aapko chance
mile toh kya aap Kashmir
ayenge?
Imran Khan: I would love to go to Kashmir, because my mother always used to spend her summer holidays on a houseboat in Kashmir as a young girl. My grandfather would take all our family there, and so we always have these, growing up we were always told these stories. So the Kashmir thing is, simultaneously we should have talks on Kashmir and simultaneously we should open up trade with each other, open up our borders, visa restrictions, cricket matches, so the two should go together. If you concentrate on one and not Kashmir, you will always have the chances of some militants doing the Mumbai attack thing. So do the two together and then Kashmir is solvable. I have three in the party, ex foreign ministers. All three of them tell me that they came very close to Kashmir solution, specially in times of Vajpayee. So it is possible and therefore resume talks on Kashmir. And I think what India can do as confidence building measure is reduce the Army there. Remember Army is no answer to anything. Army is like treating cancer with disprin, it's a temporary solution, it is not a permanent solution. So in Pakistan military adventures in FATA have failed, in Baluchistan have failed; in East Pakistan long ago have failed. Similarly India keeping its 600-700 thousand troops in the valley, it's not going to work, it is going to alienate people more. So they should start that. We shouldn't show that there isn't militancy from Pakistan. And then we should start talks there. And, eventually come to some sort of solution because nothing is impossible.
NDTV: You have been accused, sometimes people call you Taliban Khan and even after you visited 14-year-old Malala who had been shot. You still have raised an issue of the perception of jihad and in a way blaming the government. The Afghanistan government attacked and took it strongly after you made that statement that you are too close to the Taliban. How you will answer that?
Imran Khan: All I told them was, and this is in context of Jihad, that if Pakistan disengages from the Americans it will cease to be a jihad in Pakistan. And therefore once there is no jihad the fanaticism, the suicide bombers go, we can take care of the rest. And Afghanistan, it doesn't matter what Imran Khan thinks, it's the people fighting against the native forces as long as they think jihad is jihad. How do you tell Gubuddin Hekmatayr, when he was fighting against Soviets, the Soviet Occupation, it was jihad, and Ronald Regan greets him as Mujahiddin and a hero; now he's fighting the American occupation, it's not jihad. So in Afghanistan all I was pointing out was it's those who are fighting against calling it jihad. And it's in the context of taking the jihad narrative away from the Pakistan side. It wasn't there to upset the Afghanistan government. It was just stating a fact. What do the Taliban, who fight or the fighters fighting NATO think, would you think they would be having suicide attacks or all of their attacks if they didn't think it's jihad?
NDTV: Now in that sense I know you did condemn strongly, but the shooting of a 14-year-old girl? Apparently it's still unclear who's behind it, but the shooting of a 14 year old? By taking away the Americans from this, how does that narrative, from the fact about the issue of girls' education, the issue of fundamentalist arguments, here is what those who are against you say you support.
Imran Khan: This is so ridiculous. I am the only person in a political party that has given a solution. No one has given any solution, everyone else is saying more of the same, everyone's following Einstein's definition of madness, doing the same thing over and over again expecting a different result. What are they doing different? Eight and a half years of this madness, we are not winning the war we won't win this in next 10 years. I am the only one giving the three point agenda how to win it. Now when you disengage I am telling you about how to deal with Taliban and the fanaticism. Malala is a case of the fanaticism and I mean the insanity that someone could shoot a 14 yr old girl. I am the first one who went there, I am the first one who openly condemned the Taliban, the other political leaders Zardari and Nawaz Sharif didn't name the Taliban, and I condemned them. But somehow because I talk about political solutions, it's this bush doctrine, either you're with us or against us. So if you are anti-military operations, you must be pro-Taliban, it's a stupid as that. I mean...
NDTV: How would you assure girls' education, girls' right to be educated freely? How would you ensure that Malalas can go to school?
Imran Khan: Because the moment you win the war against this militancy, you will be able to restore the schools back again. It's this fanaticism stemming out of this insane war, which is actually radicalising our society more, which is producing these fanatics. There was an article by someone of the best American minds, which I thought wrote one of the best perceptive articles, Graham Fuller, the ex-Chief of the CIA station of Afghanistan in Kabul. He wrote this article five years ago saying exactly the same thing. He said until we keep pushing Pakistan to do more, Pakistan is empowering the frenzy of fanaticism. The moment we leave Afghanistan, Pakistan's security forces will be able to control the extremists.
NDTV: You just came up as Obama is re-elected for another four years, you have been a strong critic of his administration for those drone attacks. What do you hope will actually change now, because so far America hasn't been receptive to your theories at all, in fact you had the recent incident when you were detained at Toronto.
Imran Khan: Well the point is that the drone attacks link Pakistan to the American war, and when they link us together that means we cannot, you mean we cannot take the narrative Jihad away from the militants, because Pakistan Army is killing the same people as the Americans. We are killing the same people, so we are the enemy of the Taliban. And therefore jihad, if it's against the Americans occupying force it's also against us as collaborators. So therefore I have always maintained you know that these drone attacks are completely counterproductive, apart from all humanitarian laws. No law allows someone to be judged then executed and eliminate suspects, remember these are suspects. We don't know whether actually they are militants. Suspects, if their wives and children anyone there is eliminated. I mean this is barbaric, and it's even descending lower than the level of what Taliban are doing, and all it's doing is creating anti Americanism. And it's counterproductive in the sense that militants are quickly replaced. Whoever is killed is replaced, and according to the Stanford University report, 98% of those who are killed either are low level militants or the innocent civilians, only 2% are high level targets. So what are they achieving, what are the drone attacks achieving?
NDTV: Do you welcome President Obama's re-election?
Imran Khan: But I am hoping Obama in his second term will realise that since he is not, he's not going to be re-elected he will realise that he will no longer have to worry about the writers, the pro war lot, the Republican. He will be no longer under pressure. And he will follow his instincts, which is he's basically a man of peace. As appears in this book Obama's War that he was always anti the search whether as the general persuader or general patriot. So now I hope he will be able to resist the pressure of doing more and more wars and more bombs. He will actually give peace a chance.
NDTV: And I have got another, well a surprise voice to ask you a a question and Sunil Gavaskar is on the phone line with this question and Hi Sir, can you hear me, this is Sonia, can you hear me? Hi, thanks a lot for joining us Sir and go ahead and ask your question to Imran Khan.
Imran Khan: Hi Sunny.
Sunil Gavaskar: Hi, hi Imran, but I don't have any question really about myself I just want to say one thing, there is a cricketing question that doesn't concern me, actually concerns Pakistani players which I will ask little later, but I want to say just one thing that's Imran changed the face and image of the Pakistan cricket with his leadership, and I do believe if he comes to power he will do the same politically as well. I think India has done business with two of Pakistan's parties, political parties plus the Army and I don't feel there has been much progress, but I do believe that with Imran there's tremendous chance of peace prevailing, the misunderstanding which are there will be easily solved, because he is sportsman at heart and I think he has the capability of doing so, and that's why I wish him all the very best in his endeavours to take Pakistan forward. The cricketing question which I have for him is I am sure will make him laugh, and that's simply, you know I have heard these stories so often from different people and therefore I am asking you, why when you played for Sussex against Gloucestershire you bowled four bouncers in an over to Sadiq Mohammed and none to Zaheer Abaas?
NDTV: Country first always. Well I would ask, aren't you worried Mr Gavaskar that you asked the formidable rival that he was to the Indian cricket team that you translated as politics? Go ahead Imran.
Imran Khan: I'll just say one thing to Sunny because we sort of competed; it was a question of getting him out to beat India. I mean he was the wall and so, I mean, I was the main bowler so I was always competing, but I had the greatest respect for Sunny and I thank you for the nice words he said about me. The thing is at least Sunny knows that whatever I say I'll do. At least India will know whenever I say something I'll do it. You mean...
NDTV: That's a bit worrying.
Imran Khan: It won't be a question of if I'll say there won't be any question of terrorism from my soil and then I make excuses.
NDTV: You won't be controlled by the Army, won't be the puppet of anyone?
Imran Khan: I have never been controlled by anyone in my life, that ...
NDTV: That we know, there are many cricket administrators in Pakistan who know as well.
Imran Khan: But about cricket what he said, you see there have been these two players, Pakistani players, both played with me, Zaheer, Sadeeq. The reason he knows I used to bowl bouncers at the other guy, because whenever he used to play with me, because when I was younger, I was a boy who came to a cricket team, Sadeeq gave me a tough time. He used to make fun of me, he used to; he used to ridicule me saying I would never succeed. I remember once I was, I don't remember I was 18, I wasn't very good, I mean he was right. So they made me field this position, where silly short leg without a helmet or anything, where I could be hit. And so when I was fielding there they could see I was nervous, and Sadeeq went and said, it doesn't matter you put him there, you know he's never going to play cricket any way. So I had never forgot that and therefore I always wanted to prove a point against him.
NDTV: Currently of course there's an Indo-Pak cricket series coming up again in India. Politically it's a controversial move. Do you think you can have cricket when everything else is going on, when you still have sticking points like for, say for the differences between India and Pakistan on Mumbai 26/11?
Imran Khan: Are we going to be stuck in the past, I mean Pakistan will list these number of things, this is Samjhauta Express and God knows what not, because everything every time you, Indian government talks about this, the whole list comes from Pakistan. We are stuck in the past. It's time to move on. Yes we do not allow any terrorism from our soil, yes we should have two governments that have confidence that we are trying our best help each other, rather than making it difficult for each other. Let us help each other to have a strong relationship. Relationships are nurtured you know, they are never one sided that you know, you have to do this, you come to my standard and then I'll talk to you. This is nonsense. This is immature. For the sake of the sub-continent time has come to move on now. And we both accuse each other of so many things. Let us leave them behind. And see a new era in our relationship.
NDTV: Thus cricket actually helps? Because in a sense watching an Indo-Pak cricket match isn't like watching in the days like you and Sunil Gavaskar, it's changed, it's moved on. In fact the passion is perhaps lacking from both the sides as well.
Imran Khan: Well it's because we play too much now, our time we didn't play as much. But I must say one thing that India Pakistan match, if the governments are moving closer, if the whole atmosphere is of peace, then it becomes healthy, a healthy competition. But that anger, that, what's the word, that nastiness goes out of here, but if the relationship isn't good then this anger, like I have played twice when we were getting closer, it was incredible, the sort of feeling in India, you know the warmth and everything. The next time I had played, our forces were at the border for 1987, and I felt a lot of animosity in the cricket field from the crowd. So if you play in the right atmosphere then cricket can actually be the cementing force.
NDTV: I have a question also from a viewer who wrote in our website NDTV.com and they asked that how can Muslims, going beyond stereotypes both in Pakistan and India, there in a sense is a stereotypical view in both India and Pakistan, how do they combat that image?
Imran Khan: Unfortunately this 9/11 has exacerbated the whole situation. When the biggest blunder made by George Bush and Tony Blair was that they declared war against radical Islam. Now what should have happened, in my opinion, is that there were 19 criminals. They should have treated like criminals, they shouldn't have been elevated to the status of holy warriors, because the moment Islam comes in there would be the moment they become the warriors of Islam. There were plenty of people to emulate them. Every human community has its fanatics, so I felt that the way the whole war was fought was deeply flawed. Islam should never have made the part of it. It is not the war against ideologies, which is what they made it out to be. This is not ideology, some ideological war like Communism, like Nazism. It was almost deliberate. They wanted to create an enemy. This war, all its root cause was political, and politics was in case of 9/11, was the Palestinian-Israel issue, that's what caused that.
NDTV: Do you find that as Muslim politician, who believes in Islam, the buttonhold into certain pockets, you know the people will say Imran Khan is a Muslim politician, ergo he is a fundamentalist, ergo he supports the radical mullahs?
Imran Khan: Well, the problem is that ever since the Iranian revolution the West, the Americans, look upon the Muslim society as some sort of fight going on between Muslim fundamentalist and some moderates. This is the narrative they have put the Muslim world in, see in India they look upon us just the same. Actually this is not the issue in the Muslim world, it is between the status quo and anti -status quo. Hence when the Arab Spring took place everyone kept wondering where are the fundamentalists and where are the moderates. Actually everyone was together against a corrupt status quo, same thing in Pakistan. My political party basically is what the Arab Spring is all about. We have all sorts of people with us, we have right wing, we have madrasa students; we have English-medium students. People wanted change. Democratic rights. So, because this strange narrative has been imposed upon me, on one side I am called by the so-called Western liberals, who basically I call 'westoxified', whatever the West says they parrot it in Pakistan. They call me Taliban Khan or some sort of fundamentalist and so on, On the other hand the Taliban called me Western liberal secular and pro American, so I am stuck between these two extremes. Because they don't understand the real issue of Pakistan, which is a small corrupt status quo, a ruling elite, which is hogging all the resources of the country, as opposed to the majority of Pakistan, who want change and a genuine democracy.
NDTV: But with one common issue, where politicians say in India and perhaps in Pakistan as well, that in India where perhaps the quest is for the vote bank; that certain politicians will not speak up against even the most fundamentalist tenets of either Hinduism or Islam, because the vote banks are catering to ...
Imran Khan: I was told that I did not criticise Taliban and the Malala incident. There is a press conference showing me naming the Taliban which by the way, none of the other big parties did not name them. But there is no doubt that as a politician you have to tread very carefully, especially now in Pakistan, which is a polarized society, it is a highly radicalized society, thanks to this war on terror. You really have to tread very carefully. Yes you have to right now.
NDTV: Recent reports of an exodus of minorities from Pakistan, do you feel there is a reason for concern over the status of minorities in Pakistan?
Imran Khan: There is a concern among the Hindu community, I visited them and I know there was a doctor there who was killed and I visited that village. And I am sad to say that yes, there was injustice. But remember there is no rule of law in Pakistan. When rule of law collapses, anyone who is from the weaker section of the society suffers. Laws are to protect the weak from the strong. But it is not specifically community based, because Raymond Davies who was an American CIA, in broad day light shoots two Pakistani teenagers in front of everyone, in a crowded street, he is taken out of Pakistan, he is above law. A Pakistan law could not do anything. So, if you are strong, no matter which religion you are from, you can get away with anything. Murder. But if you are weak, you have no power. That is why my party is called Tehreek-e-Insaaf, movement for justice. We need rule of law in Pakistan, rule of law is what will protect minorities and I am sad to say that in Sindh where the law has absolutely collapsed. I mean if you look at Karachi, everyday there are target killings going on, no one is caught. So you really need the rule of law to protect weak.
NDTV: You said in a cricket anecdote that you never really forget. What would you say to people who ridiculed you when you took to politics, you did not even get any seats, there were parodies saying I'm the Dim. You have Salman Rushdie calling you dictator-in-waiting and comparing you with Gaddafi. What would you say to all these people now?
Imran Khan: It has happened to me all my life. In this particular case it was different because they used to make fun of me as a bowler and I wanted to prove a point. But I am used to it. All my life I have been told this is not possible, that is not possible. Whether it was cricket or building a hospital, people made fun of me, in politics people have been making fun of me throughout. It is part of life. I remember Gandhi saying, first they laugh at you, then they stop laughing at you and then they praise you. I forgive people very easily. I don't particularly care. But what I feel is those skeptics, some of them who used to really ridicule me are now a part of my party.
NDTV: If you can't beat them join them. So our last question is from Mumbai. Let's go across to that now.
Mumbai questioner: I am not a professional player but I am an all-rounder. I have heard that you have the most female fans in cricket history, so is that true Sir?
Imran Khan: My God! I never looked at it that way.
NDTV: The most female fans of a Pakistani politician?
Imran Khan: I am past that age of fans you know. At my age you don't look upon life like that. But I do notice is that the young and the women of Pakistan are all with my party. There is a revolution in houses. The father is in one party, the mother and the children are moving to Tehreek-e-Insaaf
NDTV: Whatever works is fine. But tell me when you wrote your autobiography you kind of air-brushed your past, you left out some chapters, your relationships when you were young cricketer. Some describe you as cricket's playboy. Is it politically inconvenient now or have you grown up?
Imran Khan: I could have left a lot of details about my school days, then my university days. We all evolve, the more we challenge ourselves the more you pit yourself against resistance. The more you grow. At point things that seems important in your life later become trivial because actually your targets are much higher now
NDTV: You got married and within a year entered politics. You didn't consider it would be difficult as you hadn't married a Pakistani?
Imran Khan: One thing I have always done is I follow my passion. I dream something and I go for it. And most of the time you do not know what it encompasses. I always believed whatever happens I can cope with it. But in the case of getting married the mistake I made was, the only regret I have, is because my ex-wife suffered. I thought I was strong to take on all the odds. But she, poor girl, coming from her background, she really went through hell. Political life was a nightmare for her. I felt bad. If I was ready for it I should not have put someone else to a test, which she went through. In Pakistani politics women are generally left out. No one attacks the family. In this case they went for her. They couldn't accuse me of corruption or anything so they made her the soft target. That is what I did not anticipate when I went into politics. Somehow I thought they would have some etiquette
NDTV: Do you think you will ever get married again?
Imran Khan: At this age I am not brash enough to make these definite statements. I began to realise that you plan your life in one direction and life goes in another direction.
NDTV: Your sons are growing up, are they interested in politics or what their father does?
Imran Khan: The older one is much more interested. He has become quite political, mainly because he worries about me all the time. They love their father, he is intelligent enough to realise that there are a lot of risks involved. But to say that they will ever go into politics, I hope not.
NDTV: So as we end tonight, nothing can stop this tsunami Imran Khan?
Imran Khan: The tsunami can be stopped only if we blunder in awarding tickets to our party. If the tickets to our party are awarded to the right people, that is people reflecting change. I don't think anyone can stop this.
NDTV: Thanks a lot Imran for joining us.