Former Finance Minister P Chidambaram with NDTV's Nidhi Razdan in an interview.
Former Finance Minister P Chidambaram has told NDTV that while the former PM Narasimha Rao deserves full credit for the economic reforms, his rule was a "blot". Specifically referring to the demolition of the Babri Masjid, he said, "I don't think anyone denies Narasimha Rao was the political force behind the economic reforms, he handled the politics of economic reforms very well. There are other aspects to his government which, I am afraid, blotted his record". On the controversy over the exit of Raghuram Rajan as Reserve Bank Governor, former finance minister P Chidambaram tells NDTV he believes Mr Rajan had every right to speak out on issues that we enter strictly within his brief.
Following is the full transcript of Former Finance Minister P Chidambaram's interview to NDTV.NDTV: Explain how momentous 1991 reforms were and what impact is it having on us even today?
P Chidambaram: It was a watershed in India's economic history and Indian history. Trade policy reforms were announced exactly 25 years ago on July 4. On 1st and the 3rd the two sub devaluations were done. In the evening Dr Manmohan Singh and I, along with other officials, addressed the first seminar on what we are doing. We tried to explain what we were doing. The nation was taken by surprise on the width and amplitude of the reforms. It was followed by the Budget on July 24 and industrial policy earlier in the day. So we had to explain it to the country. Correcting the exchange rate, trade policy changes, and the industrial policy change plus the budget together was perhaps the most momentous economic decision taken in a period of 21 days. That changed the face of India forever. We became an open economy. Not fully open, but open economy. We accepted the idea of a market, of competition and the state began to withdraw on trade and industrial policy side by saying that people must be free to take economic decisions. The market will decide who is the winner and who is not the winner. I think these are far reaching decisions in any country's economic history. In case of India, it was a watershed.
NDTV: You have recently said that Rao signed the package when you all had signed it. You described him as a pragmatic man. Do you think he got his due?
P Chidambaram: I don't think anyone denies Narsimha Rao was the political force behind the economic reforms. He handled the politics of economic reforms very well. Both Dr Manmohan Singh and I, on more than one occasion, acknowledged that without him at the helm we could not have done these reforms. Don't think anyone takes away credit from him for the economic reforms. There are other aspects to his government, which I am afraid blotted his record
NDTV: Are you talking about Ayodhya?
P Chidamaram: Obviously.
NDTV: Is that why you think Congress didn't commemorate his birth anniversary over these years? He is being appropriated by the BJP as a leader they recognise .
P Chidambaram: BJP will appropriate anyone, even its most severe critic. Point is we gave him a befitting funeral in Hyderabad to which the PM, Mrs Gandhi, many others including me attended it. A memorial has been erected for him in Hyderabad. It is not as though all memorials have to be erected in Delhi. Memorials can be erected in other parts of India and he was happy to describe himself as the son of Telugu country. And there is a memorial for him in Hyderabad.
NDTV: But shouldn't the party remember him on his birth anniversary, there was nothing at the Congress headquarters? PM even tweeted about him.
P Chidambaram: Well these are perceptions. I think the party has never denied him credit for economic reforms. I don't think tweeting is the best way to remember anyone. Be that as it may I have no comment on that.
NDTV: How do you assess Modi government's performance on economic front?
P Chidambaram: I can't do better than quote Yashwant Sinha. Economic reforms are not only about FDI. These are incremental changes that every government will make. If any other party would have been in government, these changes would have happened. On the GDP numbers, the less I say about it, the better. I don't think we should be taken in by the dazzle of the GDP numbers. We need to do a reality check with other economic indicators and people wiser than me have pointed out that the numbers don't gel. We need to ask 'is there more private investment?' Is there adequate credit for the different sections of the economy; farmers, small and medium enterprises; is employment, jobs being created?
NDTV: You're saying GDP numbers are exaggerated?
P Chidambaram: I didn't say that. Even today the Chairman of the National Statistics Commission has acknowledged that there is a problem with the deflator. We are not questioning the integrity of the CSO, we are questioning the methodology and asking them to explain why they chose a particular deflator. Choice of deflator translates nominal growth into real GDP growth. The choice of deflator has been questioned by a lot of people. The new Chairman has said there is a problem with the deflator. When they correct the deflator, if they correct the deflator, we'll know what the real growth is.
NDTV: But World Bank Chief says India is a bright spot.
P Chidambaram: India is a bright spot compared to what is happening in the rest of the world. When someone said one-eyed monarch of the blind, people protested. We are a bright spot, but don't dress it up or puff it up to believe that we are any where near the growth rate achieved between 2004-2009. Records are meant to be broken. The record five-year period is 2004-2009. I wish this government would break that record, but it can't break the record without firm numbers.
NDTV: The relationship between the RBI Governor and the government ...
P Chidambaram: It should be a respectful, mature relationship. You can disagree. Two mature people can disagree, but that doesn't mean one has to abuse the other, question the other's patriotism, question the other's intellectual capability. That is where I think, I don't know, I haven't spoken to him or met him, he felt deeply hurt and decided to quit. India is the loser.
NDTV: Did Rajan go beyond the brief of the RBI Governor?
P Chidambaram: What is the RBI Governor's brief? Where is it written? He is an acknowledged academic, author and intellectual. He spoke on issues, which are in the public domain.
NDTV: But should he have?
P Chidambaram: Why not?
NDTV: On intolerance ...
P Chidambaram: Why not? He said only tolerant societies can move forward fast. You cannot have a high degree of intolerance, with one section of people living in fear and still hope for inclusive growth. Why not? What is wrong in these words? Did he use abusive language? Did he maim anyone?
NDTV: But we know whom he was talking about. Is this what his role should be?
P Chidambaram: As the central bank Governor, he did his job. He is also an academic, author and intellectual. I don't think a secure government should fear frank speeches by public intellectuals. Central bank governors have spoke about things in the past. Alan Greenspan spoke, Mervyn King spoke
NDTV: So it is not unusual?
P Chidambaram: He didn't speak about an obnoxious issue. He spoke about an issue, which was in the public domain. What is wrong with that? In fact, to find fault with that is an example of intolerance
NDTV: Kashmir, a spurt in infiltration and militancy...
P Chidambaram: There is a great disconnect between the state government of J&K and the people of J&K, especially the youth. No one knows where to place Miss Mehbooba Mufti. She has swung so far away from her earlier positions. It is very difficult to place her on the political spectrum. It appears totally opportunistic that she should have joined hands with the BJP to form a government. If no government is possible, the idea is to go for a fresh election. Number 2, there is no dialogue with the people of Kashmir. The UPA appointed 3 interlocutors. We took an all-party delegation. Both were a remarkable success. If you look at the interlocution, and look at the graph of militancy, you will find a sharp decline in militancy, sharp in stone pelting.
NDTV: Parliament ...
P Chidambaram: Appointment of intelocutors was a wise move. They did a great job and prepared a report. By that time the government had become quite nervous and didn't actually take forward the process. That is a regret. But please also remember, that I left the Home Ministry and returned to the Finance Ministry in August 2012.
NDTV: You were of the view that AFSPA should be lifted?
P Chidambaram: It is a matter of deep regret. Even today I think AFSPA should be repealed. If the government doesn't have the courage to repeal it, it must be amended, amendments have been drafted. They have been there. All it requires is for the Parliament to pass the law. AFSPA has been lifted in Tripura. Has Tripura collapsed? Has it been taken over by insurgents?
NDTV: But J&K is very different ...
P Chidambaram: Don't lift it. Apply it more selectively. There are ways in which even a harsh law can be applied.
NDTV: You think UPA could have handled it better?
P Chidambaram: The period I was there, I pushed the interlocutors, gave them my full support. But I wasn't there in the last 2 years and I really can't comment. But I wish that the UPA had taken forward the process started with interlocutors.
NDTV: Disconnect between New Delhi and Srinagar.
P Chidambaram: We tried to bridge that gap by taking an all-party delegation for a two-day visit. Marathon meetings from morning till night were held. We met thousands of people. That created a new sense of hope and confidence among young people particularly. I worked very closely with the Omar Abdullah government, held meetings very frequently, met with people in the districts. I think any government needs to give focused attention to J&K, must devote more time to the Kashmir problem and issues of the Kashmir people and must establish a connect with the Kashmiris. I think I tried, succeeded to some measure, but I am afraid there hasn't been enough follow up
NDTV: Kashmir going back to the '90s?
P Chidambaram: Not yet. It may happen if you don't address the trend. It is very worrying that more and more homegrown young boys are joining the ranks of militants. Infiltration is one thing but your own boys taking to militancy is worrying. Just like homegrown boys committing this act of terror in Dhaka.
NDTV: Bangladesh ...
P Chidambaram: This is the new dimension of terrorism. You don't require an organisation to commit an act of terror. Don't require a mentor to initiate people into a terrorist organisation. It all takes place through internet and distance mentoring. Anyone inclined to believe that his religion, in this case Islam, has a special place and must be the dominant religion, all other faiths are enemies of Islam, can easily turn terrorist by 'self-education'. Self-education is a wrong word but by self-motivation and self-education, which is why it is becoming increasingly difficult to gather intelligence
NDTV: ISIS threat to India ...
P Chidambaram: It is not as grave a threat as it is to the Middle East or West Asia or in Europe. But considering what is happening in Afghanistan, Pakistan and Bangladesh, I think South Asia is also becoming a major target for the ISIS
NDTV: Elections ...
P Chidambaram: It is a formidable challenge for the Congress. The Congress vote was only 19%. The BJP's was 31%. BJP has been in office for 2 years. It is for Congress now to work out a political strategy to gain votes of those who didn't vote for either the Congress or the BJP. 50% didn't vote for either.
NDTV: Congress being written off. Not the primary opposition force ...
P Chidambaram: I don't agree. Congress has lost its right to be in the government in most states. But I don't think there is any other party with a national footprint as widespread as the Congress. The footprint is shrinking. The electoral dividend of the footprint has reduced. The footprint is still there. It is the only party, which still has, at least someone who says, I am a Congressman, Congresswoman in every village of India. So its national footprint is there. We need to convert this into a powerful missionary to get votes and win elections.
I am not in charge of the election organisation. I am sure those who are in charge are reflecting on it. Don't think any other party has supplanted the Congress as the principal opposition to the BJP. If anyone has a chance of replacing the BJP government, I think it is only the Congress, which has that chance.