Pilibhit:
If this election has been all about Rahul Gandhi, who is testing his brand of youth-oriented politics, then it's also about the other Gandhi, who has not quite had his share of the election limelight in this political season. Varun Gandhi, has not campaigned in a single constituency outside the boundaries of his Parliamentary constituency of Pilibhit.
In a no holds barred interview to NDTV, Mr Gandhi says he has age on his side; so he can take time off to look within and earn his place in UP politics. But taking a dig at the clamor within his party for the top job in UP, he says there are 55 contenders for the chief minister's post in the BJP and says he has every reason to believe that the Samajwadi Party will emerge as the single largest party in these elections.
Here's the full transcript of Bharatiya Janata Party leader and Member of Parliament from Pilibhit, Varun Gandhi's interview with NDTV.
NDTV: Sir thank you so much for talking to NDTV. What are the major issues in this part of the constituency and do you think that the BJP will be able to improve its tally here?
Varun Gandhi: Here, they have always done fairly well. So its not a question of improving it that substantially but there will be numeric improvements. The issues for me and for most of these people are two. One is the work that I have done as an MP in the last two and a half years, which is basically what I have spoken about in my speeches. Secondly honestly with most of these people they have known me since I was about six or seven. So they treat me more like a son or a brother than a politician. So I have a sort of easy rapport with them and its just a question of you know dealing with the problems the every day problems. These are MLA elections not national elections. So therefor the problems will be localized and the solutions also have to be engineered locally. So therefore we also have to look at new ways to deal with old problems. Because the problems are perennial.
NDTV: I have been seeing the kind of campaigning that you have been doing for the past four or five over here, there was certain kind of signature style that Varun Gandhi Gandhi had during the 2009 elections, using the slogan of jai shri ram, its not there anymore, have you mellowed down a bit, from the Varun Gandhi Gandhi you were then to the Varun Gandhi Gandhi you are now?
Varun Gandhi: It is very easy for the media or for anybody to box people in a particular stereotype. So what happens is when you, look at people closely, truth is much more complicated and much more layered, than looking at things in a certain perspective in one colour. And as far as raising the slogan of jai shri ram, I think you are talking about one or two speeches. I'll give you a small example. Of course at that time things were so strange I couldn't really get in a word edge ways. But the courts have found completely in my favour. They have ruled that all those speeches and CD's were doctored. So I really have proved my point, that that kind of stereotype was false, and motivated and it was put through by I mean on record and this is not my hypothesis by the candidate opposing me. The fact is there that that's motive, so the point is that I think that over time, I don't know about mellowing, I think mellowing is a good word, I think it doesn't describe the journey of a human being accurately. I think the truth of the matter is that I think when you go through a lot in life, both good and bad, it tends to expand your heard and when your heart expands then more goodness happens to you and you put forth more goodness in the universe. I am sorry to sound like Deepak chopra or something, but I just feel happier as a human being and I feel more settled more stable and I think there is so much more good work to be done that why this time I wanted to have a very low profile campaign and I specifically told the BJP leadership because they put a lot of pressure on me to campaign and stuff and to be honest they have been pretty good about accommodating a lot of my people in UP with tickets and stuff and this time I just wanted to be a normal MP a first time young MP I didn't want to lead the campaign in the state or anything and I made that clear to the national president about four months five months back.
NDTV: We have seen that there are more than a crore new voters that are taking part in these elections that are exercising the right of franchise in these elections .. the congress has your cousin leading the entire campaign, the Samajwadi party has young face in the name of akhiesh Yadav who is leading the campaign, the BSP perhaps does not need the vote of the youth, which is why there is no youthful projection, everybody was hoping in the party that you would be the youth face of the party in these elections. Has the BJP missed the bus as far as tapping on the youth vote in this election is concerned by not projecting you?
Varun Gandhi: See the thing is that both Rahuljee and Akhileshjee are ten years elder to me. So there is an age gap. I am 31, One is 40 one is 41. At the end of the day, there is time for me. I was very conscious after 2009 not to use that as a sort of image that was created by the media to my advantage. To be honest with you and I just wanted to go a different way and the only, I could do it was to be silent because silence creates its own solutions. And, chose for two years to do different things. To speak on parliament on different issues on anti corruption to go on twitter to do different things which were interesting to me as a young person. I probably have a book coming out next year. So I have been exploring parts of myself that perhaps I didn't do earlier, and that has made me very happy. Regarding this election I would like to say that for me losing elections or winning elections is one part of the political process. The other part of is understanding it. Because otherwise it would be very arrogant to say at 31 to say that I know everything about everything. So what I feel is UP is a huge state, and I have toured UP and you attended a couple of my rallies, I think I have reached out to a lot of people. Perhaps the time had not come this time for me to campaign in a way that some people spoke to me about earlier. I mean there is always the next election. And remember that five years from now on I will only be 36 year old. Then there is the lok sabha elections, there are other elections there are organizational responsibilities. When I was 24 I was offered the same position that I took when I was 29. But I refused it. And the reason is because, I first wanted to prove myself by winning an election. By the grace of all these people, I won by three lakhs, so then had nothing to prove anymore. So what I want to do is really let my work that I have done speak for me. And I cant make any bold claims that we are sweeping this region. But if I were to speak moderately, then I think out of the four seats in this constituency, we will probably swing three.
NDTV: You say that you have age on your side, which is why perhaps you are holding yourself back a little, not going full throttle in this election.
Varun Gandhi: Not at all.
NDTV: You defied convention, if I were to say that, you started early. So perhaps keeping that in mind, that aspect in mind that you started early so why not perhaps lead the young faces in the party in this election?
Varun Gandhi: See what I wanted out of this election was two things. One was that I wanted to consolidate this particular area. The other thing that I wanted was that it gave me an opportunity to go to say 3 to 400 villages in my area and reach out to them you know which is a bit lazy at doing. I think that I have done those. The thing is, that I would like greater responsibilities over time and I think that that process should be a bit slow and dynamic because otherwise you get ahead of yourself and its very heady it's a great rush. But, life sometimes its not the rush that's important because one has made those mistakes. Whats important is the process.
NDTV: What mistakes are you referring to?
Varun Gandhi: No what I am saying is when you are young, if anybody who is young. I mean you being young yourself. Anybody will tell you that when you are young, the moment captures your imagination. When you get older, it's the process that captures your imagination. You feel ok you want to earn your stripes. For instance my mother comes from a defense background and I am on the defense committee. So when I meet people from the defense forces I feel such an amazing energy coming from them because they earn their stripes ear after year, decade after decade. Sometimes I think in politics young people like me get things too easy and you don't value them. And am I saying that I am going to wait till I am 55 to get somewhere, no obviously not. But it wouldn't it be a bad idea if I waited till 35 because I was in the corporate world or in journalism or if I was writer or something, it would take me about twenty years to perfect my craft. Politics is like a craft like any other and you have got to learn the ropes and I am learning them slowly.
NDTV: you say that politics is a craft and perhaps you are learning and acquiring
Varun Gandhi: Unlearning and relearning.
NDTV: unlearning and relearning as you put it, but you have been a little hesitant in taking questions on your cousin rahul Gandhi. Many people, atleast the political thinkers the pundits say that, this is a make or break election for him and a lot is at stake at for him since he has invested so much in this election. Do you think is it really a make or break for him or do you think these are just creations of the media, manifestations of the media, when we use phrases like these to describe this election for your cousin?
Varun Gandhi: See what I'll tell you that I was around in the last election but I was very young and that is exactly what people said in the last election in which the congress did very badly. Then there was the lok sabha election in which the congress did very well. If you have grown up in a political family one thing that you realize is that should not take yourself so seriously and not to take the moment so seriously. Because in politics there will always be victory and defeat side by side. Often simultaneously. All that one can do is do ones best and what I would say for anybody for him, for me for anybody, that if you do your best there is a sense of satisfaction, and I think the congress will improve their tally. How much, I don't know. I think the BJP will improve their tally how much I don't know since I haven't travelled UP in this election. But if I were a betting man, I'd say the national parties, would acquire a greater political space in this election than they had previously partially due to the partial meltdown of the BSP. BSP will lose so many seats that each party will pick up seats.
NDTV: Do you think its better to have perhaps a chief ministerial candidate in an election.
Varun Gandhi: It is.
NDTV: Where you are trying to stake claim to the power arrangement in the state. So do you think that it would have been better for your party or for that matter even the congress to have chief ministerial candidates propped up so that people identify with the candidate ... and look forward to some kind of a leadership that the candidate personifies?
Varun Gandhi: I completely agree with you. I mean we have seen this in state after state, the BJP has had candidates like Vasundhara Raje, and also Shivraj Chauhan and people also who have done very very well. People also say that the flip side that it becomes a one man party. But lets be honest. People don't vote for symbols, just siphers. People vote for people. Its a human relationship craft. So at the end of the day, if you don't have one person it makes your message diffused. Makes it complicated. I think the BJP is one step ahead of you, I think its got 55 chief ministerial candidates. They have probably been one step ahead of you in this. Congress has a genuine problem. None of their leaders have that kind of stature. No disrespect to them. Many of them have won again and again. But I don't think there is one person out of them who people in my constituency would know the name of. So that's a problem. That's where people like me have an unfair advantage. But at the same time you have got to use it not abuse it. So I really feel that, I think in retrospect it would have been not difficult for congress to put up one name because there would have been infighting. And for the BJP I think they would have been spoiled for choice. Because there were So many people.
NDTV: Too many cooks spoil the broth?
Varun Gandhi: I don't think the broth will be spoiled. I don't think the result is going super magnificent. But I think the seats will go up. Because I think I have a habit speaking of speaking my mind. I don't think the BJP is going to get 250 seats. But I certainly think they will do better than 51 which is what they got the last time.
NDTV: What's a realistic number to look at for the BJP?
Varun Gandhi: I don't know. I can't say. Because if I had toured the state I would have answered that question honestly. The reports that I get I think they will increase but I don't know how many. Just as I don't know how much the Congress and SP will get. But I feel it is probably a truism that SP will be the single largest party in UP, but other than that I don't know how much BJP, Congress and BSP will get. But I think the BJP will do significantly better. But I can't say how much. I think SP will be the single largest gainer but I can't say how well.
NDTV: Does the SP have a well-wisher in Varun Gandhi?
Varun Gandhi: I am just trying to be straight with you. Othwerwise I would have given you the same old party spiel that BJP will get 450 seats. But this thing is that as young people we need to be straighter than the age old political matrix. I think the SP will gain in terms of percentages. I don't think they did that well the last time. As I said the BSP will lose so many seats; so I think the BJP, Congress and SP will pick up seats. And I am not a soothsayer. So I don't know. The message that I get through you people in the media is that the SP has a slight edge. But I don't know how much. I think BJP and Congress will do better. But numbers elude me.
NDTV: One question that the media has been debating in the corridors of journalist if there are any that exist ... is that that Rahul Gandhi is most talked about in these elections, but where is Varun Gandhi in this election?
Varun Gandhi: I didn't want a larger than life role in this election. Honestly If I wanted it, it was mine for the taking. But at this time I wanted a more low profile role. I wanted a role where I could just be a member of parliament. I became an MP at the age of 28-29 and I think I wanted this role for myself. And I have said to you earlier. There is always time in the future to take a greater responsibility. I think certainly in time it will happen, but I would like it to be, phase by phase. I would like to earn my stripes, I would like to earn peoples respect I would like to be known for good kind of politics. And I that over a time all these things are happening to me. and this time I wanted to maintain a low profile. And There is a lot of time for me. As I said I am ten years younger ... to Rahul jee or Akhilesh jee. So there is a lot of time.
NDTV: And what do you wish for your cousin Rahul Gandhi. Do you wish the Congress will do better this time.
Varun Gandhi: I wish him well, but what I wish for him, I will communicate to him directly. Thank You.
In a no holds barred interview to NDTV, Mr Gandhi says he has age on his side; so he can take time off to look within and earn his place in UP politics. But taking a dig at the clamor within his party for the top job in UP, he says there are 55 contenders for the chief minister's post in the BJP and says he has every reason to believe that the Samajwadi Party will emerge as the single largest party in these elections.
Here's the full transcript of Bharatiya Janata Party leader and Member of Parliament from Pilibhit, Varun Gandhi's interview with NDTV.
NDTV: Sir thank you so much for talking to NDTV. What are the major issues in this part of the constituency and do you think that the BJP will be able to improve its tally here?
Varun Gandhi: Here, they have always done fairly well. So its not a question of improving it that substantially but there will be numeric improvements. The issues for me and for most of these people are two. One is the work that I have done as an MP in the last two and a half years, which is basically what I have spoken about in my speeches. Secondly honestly with most of these people they have known me since I was about six or seven. So they treat me more like a son or a brother than a politician. So I have a sort of easy rapport with them and its just a question of you know dealing with the problems the every day problems. These are MLA elections not national elections. So therefor the problems will be localized and the solutions also have to be engineered locally. So therefore we also have to look at new ways to deal with old problems. Because the problems are perennial.
NDTV: I have been seeing the kind of campaigning that you have been doing for the past four or five over here, there was certain kind of signature style that Varun Gandhi Gandhi had during the 2009 elections, using the slogan of jai shri ram, its not there anymore, have you mellowed down a bit, from the Varun Gandhi Gandhi you were then to the Varun Gandhi Gandhi you are now?
Varun Gandhi: It is very easy for the media or for anybody to box people in a particular stereotype. So what happens is when you, look at people closely, truth is much more complicated and much more layered, than looking at things in a certain perspective in one colour. And as far as raising the slogan of jai shri ram, I think you are talking about one or two speeches. I'll give you a small example. Of course at that time things were so strange I couldn't really get in a word edge ways. But the courts have found completely in my favour. They have ruled that all those speeches and CD's were doctored. So I really have proved my point, that that kind of stereotype was false, and motivated and it was put through by I mean on record and this is not my hypothesis by the candidate opposing me. The fact is there that that's motive, so the point is that I think that over time, I don't know about mellowing, I think mellowing is a good word, I think it doesn't describe the journey of a human being accurately. I think the truth of the matter is that I think when you go through a lot in life, both good and bad, it tends to expand your heard and when your heart expands then more goodness happens to you and you put forth more goodness in the universe. I am sorry to sound like Deepak chopra or something, but I just feel happier as a human being and I feel more settled more stable and I think there is so much more good work to be done that why this time I wanted to have a very low profile campaign and I specifically told the BJP leadership because they put a lot of pressure on me to campaign and stuff and to be honest they have been pretty good about accommodating a lot of my people in UP with tickets and stuff and this time I just wanted to be a normal MP a first time young MP I didn't want to lead the campaign in the state or anything and I made that clear to the national president about four months five months back.
NDTV: We have seen that there are more than a crore new voters that are taking part in these elections that are exercising the right of franchise in these elections .. the congress has your cousin leading the entire campaign, the Samajwadi party has young face in the name of akhiesh Yadav who is leading the campaign, the BSP perhaps does not need the vote of the youth, which is why there is no youthful projection, everybody was hoping in the party that you would be the youth face of the party in these elections. Has the BJP missed the bus as far as tapping on the youth vote in this election is concerned by not projecting you?
Varun Gandhi: See the thing is that both Rahuljee and Akhileshjee are ten years elder to me. So there is an age gap. I am 31, One is 40 one is 41. At the end of the day, there is time for me. I was very conscious after 2009 not to use that as a sort of image that was created by the media to my advantage. To be honest with you and I just wanted to go a different way and the only, I could do it was to be silent because silence creates its own solutions. And, chose for two years to do different things. To speak on parliament on different issues on anti corruption to go on twitter to do different things which were interesting to me as a young person. I probably have a book coming out next year. So I have been exploring parts of myself that perhaps I didn't do earlier, and that has made me very happy. Regarding this election I would like to say that for me losing elections or winning elections is one part of the political process. The other part of is understanding it. Because otherwise it would be very arrogant to say at 31 to say that I know everything about everything. So what I feel is UP is a huge state, and I have toured UP and you attended a couple of my rallies, I think I have reached out to a lot of people. Perhaps the time had not come this time for me to campaign in a way that some people spoke to me about earlier. I mean there is always the next election. And remember that five years from now on I will only be 36 year old. Then there is the lok sabha elections, there are other elections there are organizational responsibilities. When I was 24 I was offered the same position that I took when I was 29. But I refused it. And the reason is because, I first wanted to prove myself by winning an election. By the grace of all these people, I won by three lakhs, so then had nothing to prove anymore. So what I want to do is really let my work that I have done speak for me. And I cant make any bold claims that we are sweeping this region. But if I were to speak moderately, then I think out of the four seats in this constituency, we will probably swing three.
NDTV: You say that you have age on your side, which is why perhaps you are holding yourself back a little, not going full throttle in this election.
Varun Gandhi: Not at all.
NDTV: You defied convention, if I were to say that, you started early. So perhaps keeping that in mind, that aspect in mind that you started early so why not perhaps lead the young faces in the party in this election?
Varun Gandhi: See what I wanted out of this election was two things. One was that I wanted to consolidate this particular area. The other thing that I wanted was that it gave me an opportunity to go to say 3 to 400 villages in my area and reach out to them you know which is a bit lazy at doing. I think that I have done those. The thing is, that I would like greater responsibilities over time and I think that that process should be a bit slow and dynamic because otherwise you get ahead of yourself and its very heady it's a great rush. But, life sometimes its not the rush that's important because one has made those mistakes. Whats important is the process.
NDTV: What mistakes are you referring to?
Varun Gandhi: No what I am saying is when you are young, if anybody who is young. I mean you being young yourself. Anybody will tell you that when you are young, the moment captures your imagination. When you get older, it's the process that captures your imagination. You feel ok you want to earn your stripes. For instance my mother comes from a defense background and I am on the defense committee. So when I meet people from the defense forces I feel such an amazing energy coming from them because they earn their stripes ear after year, decade after decade. Sometimes I think in politics young people like me get things too easy and you don't value them. And am I saying that I am going to wait till I am 55 to get somewhere, no obviously not. But it wouldn't it be a bad idea if I waited till 35 because I was in the corporate world or in journalism or if I was writer or something, it would take me about twenty years to perfect my craft. Politics is like a craft like any other and you have got to learn the ropes and I am learning them slowly.
NDTV: you say that politics is a craft and perhaps you are learning and acquiring
Varun Gandhi: Unlearning and relearning.
NDTV: unlearning and relearning as you put it, but you have been a little hesitant in taking questions on your cousin rahul Gandhi. Many people, atleast the political thinkers the pundits say that, this is a make or break election for him and a lot is at stake at for him since he has invested so much in this election. Do you think is it really a make or break for him or do you think these are just creations of the media, manifestations of the media, when we use phrases like these to describe this election for your cousin?
Varun Gandhi: See what I'll tell you that I was around in the last election but I was very young and that is exactly what people said in the last election in which the congress did very badly. Then there was the lok sabha election in which the congress did very well. If you have grown up in a political family one thing that you realize is that should not take yourself so seriously and not to take the moment so seriously. Because in politics there will always be victory and defeat side by side. Often simultaneously. All that one can do is do ones best and what I would say for anybody for him, for me for anybody, that if you do your best there is a sense of satisfaction, and I think the congress will improve their tally. How much, I don't know. I think the BJP will improve their tally how much I don't know since I haven't travelled UP in this election. But if I were a betting man, I'd say the national parties, would acquire a greater political space in this election than they had previously partially due to the partial meltdown of the BSP. BSP will lose so many seats that each party will pick up seats.
NDTV: Do you think its better to have perhaps a chief ministerial candidate in an election.
Varun Gandhi: It is.
NDTV: Where you are trying to stake claim to the power arrangement in the state. So do you think that it would have been better for your party or for that matter even the congress to have chief ministerial candidates propped up so that people identify with the candidate ... and look forward to some kind of a leadership that the candidate personifies?
Varun Gandhi: I completely agree with you. I mean we have seen this in state after state, the BJP has had candidates like Vasundhara Raje, and also Shivraj Chauhan and people also who have done very very well. People also say that the flip side that it becomes a one man party. But lets be honest. People don't vote for symbols, just siphers. People vote for people. Its a human relationship craft. So at the end of the day, if you don't have one person it makes your message diffused. Makes it complicated. I think the BJP is one step ahead of you, I think its got 55 chief ministerial candidates. They have probably been one step ahead of you in this. Congress has a genuine problem. None of their leaders have that kind of stature. No disrespect to them. Many of them have won again and again. But I don't think there is one person out of them who people in my constituency would know the name of. So that's a problem. That's where people like me have an unfair advantage. But at the same time you have got to use it not abuse it. So I really feel that, I think in retrospect it would have been not difficult for congress to put up one name because there would have been infighting. And for the BJP I think they would have been spoiled for choice. Because there were So many people.
NDTV: Too many cooks spoil the broth?
Varun Gandhi: I don't think the broth will be spoiled. I don't think the result is going super magnificent. But I think the seats will go up. Because I think I have a habit speaking of speaking my mind. I don't think the BJP is going to get 250 seats. But I certainly think they will do better than 51 which is what they got the last time.
NDTV: What's a realistic number to look at for the BJP?
Varun Gandhi: I don't know. I can't say. Because if I had toured the state I would have answered that question honestly. The reports that I get I think they will increase but I don't know how many. Just as I don't know how much the Congress and SP will get. But I feel it is probably a truism that SP will be the single largest party in UP, but other than that I don't know how much BJP, Congress and BSP will get. But I think the BJP will do significantly better. But I can't say how much. I think SP will be the single largest gainer but I can't say how well.
NDTV: Does the SP have a well-wisher in Varun Gandhi?
Varun Gandhi: I am just trying to be straight with you. Othwerwise I would have given you the same old party spiel that BJP will get 450 seats. But this thing is that as young people we need to be straighter than the age old political matrix. I think the SP will gain in terms of percentages. I don't think they did that well the last time. As I said the BSP will lose so many seats; so I think the BJP, Congress and SP will pick up seats. And I am not a soothsayer. So I don't know. The message that I get through you people in the media is that the SP has a slight edge. But I don't know how much. I think BJP and Congress will do better. But numbers elude me.
NDTV: One question that the media has been debating in the corridors of journalist if there are any that exist ... is that that Rahul Gandhi is most talked about in these elections, but where is Varun Gandhi in this election?
Varun Gandhi: I didn't want a larger than life role in this election. Honestly If I wanted it, it was mine for the taking. But at this time I wanted a more low profile role. I wanted a role where I could just be a member of parliament. I became an MP at the age of 28-29 and I think I wanted this role for myself. And I have said to you earlier. There is always time in the future to take a greater responsibility. I think certainly in time it will happen, but I would like it to be, phase by phase. I would like to earn my stripes, I would like to earn peoples respect I would like to be known for good kind of politics. And I that over a time all these things are happening to me. and this time I wanted to maintain a low profile. And There is a lot of time for me. As I said I am ten years younger ... to Rahul jee or Akhilesh jee. So there is a lot of time.
NDTV: And what do you wish for your cousin Rahul Gandhi. Do you wish the Congress will do better this time.
Varun Gandhi: I wish him well, but what I wish for him, I will communicate to him directly. Thank You.
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