New Delhi:
Filmmaker Anurag Kashyap has avoided labels, but post the success of Gangs of Wasseypur can he avoid being called a 'hit'director? Anurag Kashyap speaks with NDTV's Sonia Singh on our show Your Call.
NDTV: Good evening, and welcome to Your Call. Joining me tonight is a man, a film director, who has avoided labels but, now, can he avoid being called a 'hit' director? Anurag Kashyap joins me in the studio tonight.
Anurag Kashyap, thanks so much for joining me tonight. Did you like my introduction?
Anurag Kashyap: I don't know
NDTV: No, but it's true. The reactions, that you've got for Gangs of Wasseypur is something that you haven't got in your career so far. So, in some ways, it's flattering and, in some ways, it must be worrying.
Anurag Kashyap: Yeah, it's scary. Gangs of Wasseypur has got extreme reactions; there are also people who criticized it. But yes, I have never had so much of an audience ever before. It is, It is very good for me, in terms of, it gives me a lot of freedom to go on making the kinds of films that I want to make; but it also scares, it also scares me because, you know, people start building expectations and they start expecting you to cater to them, and that takes your freedom away. So, my philosophy is, after every successful film, shock them.
NDTV: So, success is a straight jacket. Do you see that, sometimes?
Anurag Kashyap: Yes, in the sense, I don't know. Real freedom is: I want to make a film and people say 'okay, let's do it'; the only thing that they discuss about it is how much do you want to spend making it, and that one can be realistic about. But, it was after Dev D that everyone wanted me to keep making Dev D. So, it kind of becomes a formula, without you realizing it. Because, I've really believed that after one unexpected big hit, we've lost a director, because he has made that a formula.
NDTV: Anurag, don't, don't say that, because many people will say that will Anurag Kashyap, now, go mainstream? Is that a good thing? Will, is this your Dabangg, in a sense?
Anurag Kashyap: I don't know, I'm just, just ignoring everything because I just want to make; I know I have got my next five, six films worked out and they're all difficult. And I, somehow, just want this film to lead to the next, the next to lead to the next. And yes, there are two big films, like Bombay Velvet and Doga that I have to make, and other than that there are a whole lot of little, little, tiny little, experiments and, you know, these small stories that I want to tell. The thing is that the industry is very happy doing the big ones, after when something works. But I don't think anybody would be interested in me doing those small ones.
NDTV: Has the perception of you changed, that, perhaps, you would be able to safeguard your own integrity. But has the perception of you changed if you're seen as a 'hit' film director?
Anurag Kashyap: Perception, definitely, has changed. There's a lot more support system and a lot less advice given to me now. So, that is, definitely has changed.
NDTV: Because one aspect, of course, is that you don't really work with the big stars; and, perhaps, that's because the big stars may not want to work with you. Will that change? Is it ...
Anurag Kashyap: No, no. Big stars have been wanting to work with me; it's not the reason. Because, you know, I have not worked with them, simply, because the kind of films that I've been making and I need to shoot on actual locations and I can't shoot there with big stars. Because if you take a known person and shoot a Wasseypur on the streets there will be, I can't manage the crowd. So, I need unknown faces for films like that.
NDTV: But do you think with big stars you can be the boss? Because one of the issues, I think, with the star system in Bollywood, and you've seen that with a movie that your brother made, Dabangg, where the movie is about the star. I mean, whatever you may do ...
Anurag Kashyap: No, I can't do that. I can't do that. I can work with an actor who does not come with the baggage of his image and that, for me, has always been a great thing, you know. You want to make a film, I rather have a star who says, I've come here as an actor and I trust you and you trust me, let's make a film together. And I need to not think about, you know, my fans expect this out of me, that scares me.
NDTV: Can that happen today? Because, the fact is, most directors do give in. You stand out, at the moment, but most directors actually give into the star system. It's entrenched.
Anurag Kashyap: No, no. I'm working with a star. I'm working with Ranbir Kapoor in Bombay Velvet. Ranbir Kapoor is also one of the finest actors today there is and he does not come with a fixed image.
NDTV: What's interesting, of course, is that you remain irreverent; because you've taken on big stars, whether it's the Bachhans, Salman, on Twitter. So, you've managed, I think, unguarded moments, you're on Twitter, putting it out there. Do you ever wake up and think: I shouldn't have taken on the stars.
Anurag Kashyap: No. It's not like that. I just say what I feel. In the sense, if I say it on your face you won't mind it so much; but when not saying it on anyone's face and I'm writing it on Twitter, people take it too harsh. Because, I say it as politely as I could but, you know, I, I don't believe in trying to talk in a diplomatic way. I just say it out straight. Sometimes, it just comes out.
NDTV: What is the reaction? You said there have been extreme reactions. Any people come out of Gangs of Wasseypur, not knowing what's happened to them, did they like it? Was it a new film experience, what they actually went through in those hours? What's the reaction that has impressed you the most and hurt you the most?
Anurag Kashyap: Reactions that have, reactions are good. In the sense, people have liked the film, loved the film, people have also hated the film. People have very; my thing is that if a man has hated the film so much, that one week later he is talking about it, the film has done its job, for me.
NDTV: Let me ask you, you say agenda. But we, actually, got some people from Wasseypur to ask you a question. Let's see what they have to ask you and you can answer them...
First person: Cinema ne, bahar ke vyavasahiyo ko dara diya hain. Aaj bahut sara udharn aapka cinema dikhane ke baad aaya hain ki log, yaha pe, nivesh karne se dar rahe hain.
Second person: Mere beti padhti hain bahar mein aur mein uss beti se milne gaya. Beti ne, unke milne wali jo friend hain, woh boli ki-- Uncle, yeh kaun sa film banaya hain aur aap log iss mahaul me rehte hain? Aur mere ko aapki beti se doosti nahin karna.
NDTV: India takes itself very seriously and so does Wasseypur. And you've seen, in a film if you name someone a dhobi there will be a petition against it. You think you should have renamed it something else? Why call it Gangs of Wasseypur? Why not make a fictitious name and say nothing resembles reality and it's all fiction?
Anurag Kashyap: No, that's another story. Like, in the sense, if we change names, we change places, things. But Gangs of Wasseypur toh got started; one toh Gangs of Wasseypur, the title, was given by one esteemed journalist, Subhash K Jha, who just put out a title out of his own thing; and it stuck because the studios liked it and everything, and all media communication went on in that name, whereas that name is not on the script. The script had another title, people have taken it a little too seriously; they've taken it as a personal attack on themselves. Like when Once Upon a Time in Mumbaai came out, or Company or Satya came out, people from Bombay didn't go out saying that how can you accuse us, we are not gangsters. No, the film is about one particular aspect of it. And at the time when they say all these things, there are, there is Fahim Khan, there's Sabil Alam gang war that's been going on. The Police SP also says that, and a few days back, they caught a huge cache of arms there. The film is not about; the thing is that, I can't make a film about the doctor who lives four houses down from this character's house, who is a very straight man and goes and does a 9 to 5 job or goes to a clinic or things like that, because his life is not interesting enough, for me, to make a film on.
NDTV: You've never liked Bollywood's 'candy floss' films. I mean, I've had you on the show and interact with other directors and ...
Anurag Kashyap: I can't. I cant...
NDTV: In that sense, you never joined the pack
Anurag Kashyap: I can't, you know. I really can't. I'm unable to. I'll be handicapped. I wont know how to do it and I'll deliver bad film after bad film. You know, you have to do it out of conviction. That's the thing, it's not just them. People from my own extended family, the older ones, they have issues with the film. They say, why do you have to have so many abuses, it could have been done without an abuse. And why do you have to do this? Why do you have to do that? We're so conditioned by a certain kind of cinema that the idea of cinema is a family viewing experience. If a family can't watch together, it's dirty; it's not supposed to be. We're scared of adult cinema. Adult, immediately, means there's something. People either, get that naughty glint in their eyes, it's an adult film or something. Adult can't be about serious issues. Adult can't be about things, about politics, no. Adult has to be about sex, in their heads. Adult has to be about something very dirty. So, you know, they don't understand the meaning of adult. Our morality is such that we think that adult ho gaya toh manne kuchh ganda ho gaya. It's not that the people can think for themselves, who can really really; and we end up making children films.
NDTV: Manoj Bajpai joins us now with a question for Anurag Kashyap.
Manoj Bajpai: I would like to ask one question of you. Saare, ek actor toh hu mein, toh actoro valo savaal hi karoonga, ki tum ne Wasseypur toh bana di, doosre release ho rahi hain, aur usme mera absence hain. Toh yeh jo poore promotion hain, toh mujhe miss kar rahe ho ya nahin kar rahe ho promotion mein? Aur doosra yeh ki humare agli film kab ho rahi hain? Yeh hui na actor wali baat! Log mujhe pooche ja rahe hain ki aap agli film kab karoge, agli film kab karoge? agli film kab karoge? Toh mein humesh kehta hoon ki Anurag ne mera kalp thodi na khaya hain ki har film mein lega.iska answer zaroor dena. Isko hass kar taalna mat kyuki tumhari addat hain hass kar cheezo ko taalna.
Anurag Kashyap: We'll do a film after Bombay Velvet. But my next two films you're not there.
NDTV: How do you deal with, not with Manoj Bajpai is of course joking, but tell me, it reinvented Manoj Bajpai also completely. And I think Manoj Bajpai has reinvented himself so much in his career because he's really an actor who has proved himself in a film and then goes and gets no movies, then has to prove himself again. But Gangs of Wasseypur was defining, even for him.
Anurag Kashyap: Yes, absolutely. Because, in a sense, Manoj also, it was not just me who reinvented him, it was he who also reinvented himself. He was game for it. He came in and I said, you know, I want you to be lean and a lot more energetic, his whole body language. And I said there's this fixed image of you also because of the way you look and can we change that because this character is very sexual. He agreed to shave his head and actors don't do that.
NDTV: In a sense, people say there's almost arrogance you have. You look down on, as some would say, your colleagues. Saying, okay they do it, but I'm better than them. I won't do the same thing.
Anurag Kashyap: No, it's not like that. See, I'm just thinking that I've got, for a long time...
NDTV: People don't have the guts to do what you do.
Anurag Kashyap: No, it's not about guts. I'd need guts to make the kind of mainstream candy floss love-story that I don't make. Because, you know, you need guts to do something that's not you, which does not come from conviction. It's very easy for me to make Gangs of Wasseypur and things like that. What's difficult for me is to do it in the amount that I'm given; do it between the budgets that I'm given, that's difficult. These films come very easily to me. That'll, that'll pull my hair to try and write a film like that. And it is not that I look down upon them or anything. It's just that I want to build walls, simply, because I want to protect what I have. I want to protect what I want to do. The industry is extremely supportive. The filmmaker's community and everything, they are all my friends. They are very supportive. And they have been wanting me to do better than I've been doing so they always come and tell me how I can make more money, how I can do it to make it more successful. And I listen to them but I don't want those advices because I know, because they're my friends so I need to, you know, stay away a little bit.
NDTV: And you tweeted a little bit that after Gangs of Wasseypur you actually bought your first car.
Anurag Kashyap: Yes, I bought that before the film came out. But, yes. I want to do everything at the right time, for which I'm not dealing with the pressure of it. If I have to make my kind of films I can't have the pressure of an EMI. An EMI will kill me. So I don't want EMIs, I want to stay away from EMIs. So, that's why, I will buy a car when I can afford it. And I will buy a car that I can afford.
NDTV: So let me cross now to someone else who has a question for you. I don't know if she already asked you all the questions she's had, but Kalki thanks for joining us tonight. And go ahead and ask Anurag a question that you haven't asked him before.
Kalki: Hi Anurag
Anurag Kashyap: Hi
Kalki: How are you?
Anurag Kashyap: I'm fine
Kalki: Questions that I haven't asked you before? One is that I'd like to take you out on a date tonight, is that possible?
Anurag Kashyap: Yes
Kalki: So good, we have a date. My questions are not going to be intelligent and intellectual because I spend time with you and know how you think. So, what I want to know is what is the worst thing living and being married to an actress?
Anurag Kashyap: Worst thing about?
Kalki: About being married to an actress?
Anurag Kashyap: We get very less time with each other.
Kalki: That's it?
Anurag Kashyap: Yes
Kalki: Please don't be so diplomatic. You're not usually so diplomatic.
Anurag Kashyap: No, what else? I don't know.
NDTV: No star tantrums? No pressure to have Kalki in every movie?
Anurag Kashyap: No. That pressure is not there. But, I don't know. Thing is, when we have to go somewhere, Kalki always has the pressure, you always have the pressure, of being an actor, the pressure of looking good. And I'm just sitting there, looking myself, standing there with you when you're all ready, and I look like some sort of a beast next to you. So, that's one part of it.
NDTV: Kalki, now I know the sweet-talking to why you married him. But let me ask you, what's the difficulty to be married to a director, talented and, perhaps, tempestous, like Anurag Kashyap?
Kalki: The most difficult is I suppose not ever being yourself because a lot of people see us as the same person. They club us together and think that we think the same thoughts, and we like the same sort of films and we're, actually, joint at the hip. So, in trying to be an individual, I guess.
NDTV: But tell me, Kalki, you said the pressure of perhaps to like the same kind of films, or speak in the same kind of film dialogue. Tell me, did you like Gangs of Wasseypur? Did you, you did like it, do you like all his movies?
Kalki: I loved Gangs of Wasseypur. I don't like all his movies. When I saw Gangs of Wasseypur, I told Anurag that you will no longer be called the director of Black Friday. You will be called the director of Gangs of Wasseypur
NDTV: That's a huge compliment, in a sense. But...
Anurag Kashyap: She was the first one to say that this film is going to change the...
NDTV:Change the way people look at you. But Kalki, thanks so much for joining us with that question. Apparently you never answer your phone. Is that true?
Anurag Kashyap: No, I keep my phone on silent because it's ringing all the time. So, I can't deal with it.
NDTV: Have the kind of people calling now changed. Is it now, do you now get calls from the stars or the producers or do you get ...
Anurag Kashyap: No, no. I get calls from the same people. But right now there's too much happening and I can't answering all the questions, on how to go about things. I just need some peace for some time.
NDTV: I've got some more questions from you and these are from Mumbai. So, let's go across to some people from Mumbai.
Question: Mr Kashyap, I believe your Black Friday journey would be the toughest one and it was a controversial movie. So, I want to know about the journey, how did you go about the full movie?
Anurag Kashyap: The moment I realized that the stories that I've been writing secretly can become films; so that kind of empowered me because for a long time I was writing these stories, I was made to feel that, were too disturbing and this is not supposed to be how a story is written, all those things, so I kept them to myself. But watching those movies in the film festival in '93 made me realize that world over people are telling their stories on screen and one can do that. So that was the empowerment that came to me from the festival made me want to become a filmmaker. Black Friday was difficult because of the kind of film that it was. But we pulled off Black Friday because we all were very naive and ideologistic; and we didn't care, at that time, about anything else but wanting to get it right. And we have learnt since then, we are not naive anymore and I don't think we will be able to make that honest a film, ever, again.
I don't think I can be that honest again because in Black Friday I was like a stubborn child saying like it is, I want to shoot it that way. And I was with a producer who was from a newspaper, who had never done a film and must have believed that that is how films are done. So they allowed me to do that; they supported me to do that. And it was Mid-Day's only film and I was still an unreleased filmmaker so I didn't know the perils of film making, in the sense, release nahin hogi, my first film was just banned. But I had this thing Black Friday will go through. So we just went ahead and did that and after that we suffered for four years.
NDTV: I've got Anushka Sharma who is going to ask this question.
Anushka Sharma: Hi, Anurag. I wanted to ask you, what is the one norm of perception that Hindi film heroine that you don't agree with and would like to change? And why?
NDTV: Why are you working with Ranbir and Anushka? Why did you decide to change? You spoke about shooting with unknown actors so that you don't have a problem on location.
Anurag Kashyap: This film is shot a lot on the sets because it's shot in the '60s Bombay and '60s Bombay does not exist so I have to create it.
NDTV: But, Anushka asked what's the perception of a Hindi film heroine? There's no umbrellas and spot-boys. What's the perception of a hIndi film heroine?
Anurag Kashyap: No, no. The Hindi film heroine, what I don't like about our Hindi film actresses or characters on screen is the whole idea of them being girl next door. I just can't stand girl next door in real life.
NDTV: You didn't marry the girl next door, for sure.
Anurag Kashyap: No, I can't stand the idea of girl next door in real life. And I have always wanted to create those kind of women characters, who if I have met in real life, I would have either fallen for them or wanted to have an interaction or become much closer friends with them or admired them. So that's why my women character come out like that, and who are often judged by other people because, you know how women is, because she always decides how she is going to be, based on the man in her life, mostly. And that kind of sometimes bothers me. And I like actresses who respond to it with gusto, they take it as a challenge, they don't ask...the first question is not what dress am I going to wear or how am I going to look; but talk about the character, they talk about the story. So that's something I love about actresses. But I get very scared when they're only talking about their looks; that scares me off.
NDTV: But you've got a whole line. Because, I think, you've got 3 films on right now. What's your next line up?
Anurag Kashyap: No, no I've got. I do one film at a time.
NDTV: You've got Ugly...
Anurag Kashyap: Ugly I'm doing in October-November. And next year April I start shooting for Bombay Velvet, we start pre-producing; we've been working for a long time; we've been working for Bombay Velvet for six years. And the other film Doga, we've already started working on, which will happen a year after Bombay Velvet.
NDTV: Does Bombay Velvet scare you? Because it's a genre you haven't done.
Anurag Kashyap: It scared me for a long time. No, it scares me because I've never tackled that kind of money before. That's my experience. Making the film doesn't scare me; making a film that everybody is going to like and that kind of money that is what scares me. Because, you know, when there's no money then people just work hard, slog their ass off, and we come out with a film. There's a lot of money and the responsibility is on your shoulders, that's a little scary; that makes me fidgety.
NDTV: Anurag Kashyap, we're almost at the end of our show, what is the one film left that you want to make, you have many, many more films to make, so?
Anurag Kashyap: I have more than 20-30 films.
NDTV: But a film that stands out. Who are the actors left for you to...
Anurag Kashyap: I have 2 more films inside of me. But I want this whole Bombay Velvet to lead me to one film that I've been wanting to do for a very long time, Doga, which is based on Raj comics. And Bombay Velvet should allow me to reach that because that's much more larger than anything that anyone in the industry has ever done. So it's a dream.
NDTV: And actors you would like to work with?
Anurag Kashyap: There are a lot of actors. Matlab, I am working with Ranbir. I'll tell you the actors I really like, I like Ranvir Singh, I like Parineeti Chopra, I like Sonakshi Sinha, among the new ones. I loved Sridevi, I loved Madhuri; these are the people that I loved and they're not working anymore.
NDTV: But you have to get them back. As Anurag Kashyap, you have to convince them.
Anurag Kashyap: One day, I can work with Mr Bachhan. And Shah Rukh Khan.
NDTV: Of course. Anurag Kashyap as we end, and Shah Rukh Khan as well. What about Salman?
Anurag Kashyap: Salman, no. We'll look at things differently. And he wouldn't want to work with me, any which way. So, I don't know, I don't see that.
NDTV: As we end, one thing, Anurag, that you like about being part of the Hindi film industry and one thing you like the least?
Anurag Kashyap: I love being part of films. I love being part of films. I don't think there's anything else I'd like to have done in life.
NDTV: Anurag Kashyap, as I said, congratulations on Gangs of Wasseypur. You're a first in Indian cinema. Thank you for joining me today.
NDTV: Good evening, and welcome to Your Call. Joining me tonight is a man, a film director, who has avoided labels but, now, can he avoid being called a 'hit' director? Anurag Kashyap joins me in the studio tonight.
Anurag Kashyap, thanks so much for joining me tonight. Did you like my introduction?
Anurag Kashyap: I don't know
NDTV: No, but it's true. The reactions, that you've got for Gangs of Wasseypur is something that you haven't got in your career so far. So, in some ways, it's flattering and, in some ways, it must be worrying.
Anurag Kashyap: Yeah, it's scary. Gangs of Wasseypur has got extreme reactions; there are also people who criticized it. But yes, I have never had so much of an audience ever before. It is, It is very good for me, in terms of, it gives me a lot of freedom to go on making the kinds of films that I want to make; but it also scares, it also scares me because, you know, people start building expectations and they start expecting you to cater to them, and that takes your freedom away. So, my philosophy is, after every successful film, shock them.
NDTV: So, success is a straight jacket. Do you see that, sometimes?
Anurag Kashyap: Yes, in the sense, I don't know. Real freedom is: I want to make a film and people say 'okay, let's do it'; the only thing that they discuss about it is how much do you want to spend making it, and that one can be realistic about. But, it was after Dev D that everyone wanted me to keep making Dev D. So, it kind of becomes a formula, without you realizing it. Because, I've really believed that after one unexpected big hit, we've lost a director, because he has made that a formula.
NDTV: Anurag, don't, don't say that, because many people will say that will Anurag Kashyap, now, go mainstream? Is that a good thing? Will, is this your Dabangg, in a sense?
Anurag Kashyap: I don't know, I'm just, just ignoring everything because I just want to make; I know I have got my next five, six films worked out and they're all difficult. And I, somehow, just want this film to lead to the next, the next to lead to the next. And yes, there are two big films, like Bombay Velvet and Doga that I have to make, and other than that there are a whole lot of little, little, tiny little, experiments and, you know, these small stories that I want to tell. The thing is that the industry is very happy doing the big ones, after when something works. But I don't think anybody would be interested in me doing those small ones.
NDTV: Has the perception of you changed, that, perhaps, you would be able to safeguard your own integrity. But has the perception of you changed if you're seen as a 'hit' film director?
Anurag Kashyap: Perception, definitely, has changed. There's a lot more support system and a lot less advice given to me now. So, that is, definitely has changed.
NDTV: Because one aspect, of course, is that you don't really work with the big stars; and, perhaps, that's because the big stars may not want to work with you. Will that change? Is it ...
Anurag Kashyap: No, no. Big stars have been wanting to work with me; it's not the reason. Because, you know, I have not worked with them, simply, because the kind of films that I've been making and I need to shoot on actual locations and I can't shoot there with big stars. Because if you take a known person and shoot a Wasseypur on the streets there will be, I can't manage the crowd. So, I need unknown faces for films like that.
NDTV: But do you think with big stars you can be the boss? Because one of the issues, I think, with the star system in Bollywood, and you've seen that with a movie that your brother made, Dabangg, where the movie is about the star. I mean, whatever you may do ...
Anurag Kashyap: No, I can't do that. I can't do that. I can work with an actor who does not come with the baggage of his image and that, for me, has always been a great thing, you know. You want to make a film, I rather have a star who says, I've come here as an actor and I trust you and you trust me, let's make a film together. And I need to not think about, you know, my fans expect this out of me, that scares me.
NDTV: Can that happen today? Because, the fact is, most directors do give in. You stand out, at the moment, but most directors actually give into the star system. It's entrenched.
Anurag Kashyap: No, no. I'm working with a star. I'm working with Ranbir Kapoor in Bombay Velvet. Ranbir Kapoor is also one of the finest actors today there is and he does not come with a fixed image.
NDTV: What's interesting, of course, is that you remain irreverent; because you've taken on big stars, whether it's the Bachhans, Salman, on Twitter. So, you've managed, I think, unguarded moments, you're on Twitter, putting it out there. Do you ever wake up and think: I shouldn't have taken on the stars.
Anurag Kashyap: No. It's not like that. I just say what I feel. In the sense, if I say it on your face you won't mind it so much; but when not saying it on anyone's face and I'm writing it on Twitter, people take it too harsh. Because, I say it as politely as I could but, you know, I, I don't believe in trying to talk in a diplomatic way. I just say it out straight. Sometimes, it just comes out.
NDTV: What is the reaction? You said there have been extreme reactions. Any people come out of Gangs of Wasseypur, not knowing what's happened to them, did they like it? Was it a new film experience, what they actually went through in those hours? What's the reaction that has impressed you the most and hurt you the most?
Anurag Kashyap: Reactions that have, reactions are good. In the sense, people have liked the film, loved the film, people have also hated the film. People have very; my thing is that if a man has hated the film so much, that one week later he is talking about it, the film has done its job, for me.
NDTV: Let me ask you, you say agenda. But we, actually, got some people from Wasseypur to ask you a question. Let's see what they have to ask you and you can answer them...
First person: Cinema ne, bahar ke vyavasahiyo ko dara diya hain. Aaj bahut sara udharn aapka cinema dikhane ke baad aaya hain ki log, yaha pe, nivesh karne se dar rahe hain.
Second person: Mere beti padhti hain bahar mein aur mein uss beti se milne gaya. Beti ne, unke milne wali jo friend hain, woh boli ki-- Uncle, yeh kaun sa film banaya hain aur aap log iss mahaul me rehte hain? Aur mere ko aapki beti se doosti nahin karna.
NDTV: India takes itself very seriously and so does Wasseypur. And you've seen, in a film if you name someone a dhobi there will be a petition against it. You think you should have renamed it something else? Why call it Gangs of Wasseypur? Why not make a fictitious name and say nothing resembles reality and it's all fiction?
Anurag Kashyap: No, that's another story. Like, in the sense, if we change names, we change places, things. But Gangs of Wasseypur toh got started; one toh Gangs of Wasseypur, the title, was given by one esteemed journalist, Subhash K Jha, who just put out a title out of his own thing; and it stuck because the studios liked it and everything, and all media communication went on in that name, whereas that name is not on the script. The script had another title, people have taken it a little too seriously; they've taken it as a personal attack on themselves. Like when Once Upon a Time in Mumbaai came out, or Company or Satya came out, people from Bombay didn't go out saying that how can you accuse us, we are not gangsters. No, the film is about one particular aspect of it. And at the time when they say all these things, there are, there is Fahim Khan, there's Sabil Alam gang war that's been going on. The Police SP also says that, and a few days back, they caught a huge cache of arms there. The film is not about; the thing is that, I can't make a film about the doctor who lives four houses down from this character's house, who is a very straight man and goes and does a 9 to 5 job or goes to a clinic or things like that, because his life is not interesting enough, for me, to make a film on.
NDTV: You've never liked Bollywood's 'candy floss' films. I mean, I've had you on the show and interact with other directors and ...
Anurag Kashyap: I can't. I cant...
NDTV: In that sense, you never joined the pack
Anurag Kashyap: I can't, you know. I really can't. I'm unable to. I'll be handicapped. I wont know how to do it and I'll deliver bad film after bad film. You know, you have to do it out of conviction. That's the thing, it's not just them. People from my own extended family, the older ones, they have issues with the film. They say, why do you have to have so many abuses, it could have been done without an abuse. And why do you have to do this? Why do you have to do that? We're so conditioned by a certain kind of cinema that the idea of cinema is a family viewing experience. If a family can't watch together, it's dirty; it's not supposed to be. We're scared of adult cinema. Adult, immediately, means there's something. People either, get that naughty glint in their eyes, it's an adult film or something. Adult can't be about serious issues. Adult can't be about things, about politics, no. Adult has to be about sex, in their heads. Adult has to be about something very dirty. So, you know, they don't understand the meaning of adult. Our morality is such that we think that adult ho gaya toh manne kuchh ganda ho gaya. It's not that the people can think for themselves, who can really really; and we end up making children films.
NDTV: Manoj Bajpai joins us now with a question for Anurag Kashyap.
Manoj Bajpai: I would like to ask one question of you. Saare, ek actor toh hu mein, toh actoro valo savaal hi karoonga, ki tum ne Wasseypur toh bana di, doosre release ho rahi hain, aur usme mera absence hain. Toh yeh jo poore promotion hain, toh mujhe miss kar rahe ho ya nahin kar rahe ho promotion mein? Aur doosra yeh ki humare agli film kab ho rahi hain? Yeh hui na actor wali baat! Log mujhe pooche ja rahe hain ki aap agli film kab karoge, agli film kab karoge? agli film kab karoge? Toh mein humesh kehta hoon ki Anurag ne mera kalp thodi na khaya hain ki har film mein lega.iska answer zaroor dena. Isko hass kar taalna mat kyuki tumhari addat hain hass kar cheezo ko taalna.
Anurag Kashyap: We'll do a film after Bombay Velvet. But my next two films you're not there.
NDTV: How do you deal with, not with Manoj Bajpai is of course joking, but tell me, it reinvented Manoj Bajpai also completely. And I think Manoj Bajpai has reinvented himself so much in his career because he's really an actor who has proved himself in a film and then goes and gets no movies, then has to prove himself again. But Gangs of Wasseypur was defining, even for him.
Anurag Kashyap: Yes, absolutely. Because, in a sense, Manoj also, it was not just me who reinvented him, it was he who also reinvented himself. He was game for it. He came in and I said, you know, I want you to be lean and a lot more energetic, his whole body language. And I said there's this fixed image of you also because of the way you look and can we change that because this character is very sexual. He agreed to shave his head and actors don't do that.
NDTV: In a sense, people say there's almost arrogance you have. You look down on, as some would say, your colleagues. Saying, okay they do it, but I'm better than them. I won't do the same thing.
Anurag Kashyap: No, it's not like that. See, I'm just thinking that I've got, for a long time...
NDTV: People don't have the guts to do what you do.
Anurag Kashyap: No, it's not about guts. I'd need guts to make the kind of mainstream candy floss love-story that I don't make. Because, you know, you need guts to do something that's not you, which does not come from conviction. It's very easy for me to make Gangs of Wasseypur and things like that. What's difficult for me is to do it in the amount that I'm given; do it between the budgets that I'm given, that's difficult. These films come very easily to me. That'll, that'll pull my hair to try and write a film like that. And it is not that I look down upon them or anything. It's just that I want to build walls, simply, because I want to protect what I have. I want to protect what I want to do. The industry is extremely supportive. The filmmaker's community and everything, they are all my friends. They are very supportive. And they have been wanting me to do better than I've been doing so they always come and tell me how I can make more money, how I can do it to make it more successful. And I listen to them but I don't want those advices because I know, because they're my friends so I need to, you know, stay away a little bit.
NDTV: And you tweeted a little bit that after Gangs of Wasseypur you actually bought your first car.
Anurag Kashyap: Yes, I bought that before the film came out. But, yes. I want to do everything at the right time, for which I'm not dealing with the pressure of it. If I have to make my kind of films I can't have the pressure of an EMI. An EMI will kill me. So I don't want EMIs, I want to stay away from EMIs. So, that's why, I will buy a car when I can afford it. And I will buy a car that I can afford.
NDTV: So let me cross now to someone else who has a question for you. I don't know if she already asked you all the questions she's had, but Kalki thanks for joining us tonight. And go ahead and ask Anurag a question that you haven't asked him before.
Kalki: Hi Anurag
Anurag Kashyap: Hi
Kalki: How are you?
Anurag Kashyap: I'm fine
Kalki: Questions that I haven't asked you before? One is that I'd like to take you out on a date tonight, is that possible?
Anurag Kashyap: Yes
Kalki: So good, we have a date. My questions are not going to be intelligent and intellectual because I spend time with you and know how you think. So, what I want to know is what is the worst thing living and being married to an actress?
Anurag Kashyap: Worst thing about?
Kalki: About being married to an actress?
Anurag Kashyap: We get very less time with each other.
Kalki: That's it?
Anurag Kashyap: Yes
Kalki: Please don't be so diplomatic. You're not usually so diplomatic.
Anurag Kashyap: No, what else? I don't know.
NDTV: No star tantrums? No pressure to have Kalki in every movie?
Anurag Kashyap: No. That pressure is not there. But, I don't know. Thing is, when we have to go somewhere, Kalki always has the pressure, you always have the pressure, of being an actor, the pressure of looking good. And I'm just sitting there, looking myself, standing there with you when you're all ready, and I look like some sort of a beast next to you. So, that's one part of it.
NDTV: Kalki, now I know the sweet-talking to why you married him. But let me ask you, what's the difficulty to be married to a director, talented and, perhaps, tempestous, like Anurag Kashyap?
Kalki: The most difficult is I suppose not ever being yourself because a lot of people see us as the same person. They club us together and think that we think the same thoughts, and we like the same sort of films and we're, actually, joint at the hip. So, in trying to be an individual, I guess.
NDTV: But tell me, Kalki, you said the pressure of perhaps to like the same kind of films, or speak in the same kind of film dialogue. Tell me, did you like Gangs of Wasseypur? Did you, you did like it, do you like all his movies?
Kalki: I loved Gangs of Wasseypur. I don't like all his movies. When I saw Gangs of Wasseypur, I told Anurag that you will no longer be called the director of Black Friday. You will be called the director of Gangs of Wasseypur
NDTV: That's a huge compliment, in a sense. But...
Anurag Kashyap: She was the first one to say that this film is going to change the...
NDTV:Change the way people look at you. But Kalki, thanks so much for joining us with that question. Apparently you never answer your phone. Is that true?
Anurag Kashyap: No, I keep my phone on silent because it's ringing all the time. So, I can't deal with it.
NDTV: Have the kind of people calling now changed. Is it now, do you now get calls from the stars or the producers or do you get ...
Anurag Kashyap: No, no. I get calls from the same people. But right now there's too much happening and I can't answering all the questions, on how to go about things. I just need some peace for some time.
NDTV: I've got some more questions from you and these are from Mumbai. So, let's go across to some people from Mumbai.
Question: Mr Kashyap, I believe your Black Friday journey would be the toughest one and it was a controversial movie. So, I want to know about the journey, how did you go about the full movie?
Anurag Kashyap: The moment I realized that the stories that I've been writing secretly can become films; so that kind of empowered me because for a long time I was writing these stories, I was made to feel that, were too disturbing and this is not supposed to be how a story is written, all those things, so I kept them to myself. But watching those movies in the film festival in '93 made me realize that world over people are telling their stories on screen and one can do that. So that was the empowerment that came to me from the festival made me want to become a filmmaker. Black Friday was difficult because of the kind of film that it was. But we pulled off Black Friday because we all were very naive and ideologistic; and we didn't care, at that time, about anything else but wanting to get it right. And we have learnt since then, we are not naive anymore and I don't think we will be able to make that honest a film, ever, again.
I don't think I can be that honest again because in Black Friday I was like a stubborn child saying like it is, I want to shoot it that way. And I was with a producer who was from a newspaper, who had never done a film and must have believed that that is how films are done. So they allowed me to do that; they supported me to do that. And it was Mid-Day's only film and I was still an unreleased filmmaker so I didn't know the perils of film making, in the sense, release nahin hogi, my first film was just banned. But I had this thing Black Friday will go through. So we just went ahead and did that and after that we suffered for four years.
NDTV: I've got Anushka Sharma who is going to ask this question.
Anushka Sharma: Hi, Anurag. I wanted to ask you, what is the one norm of perception that Hindi film heroine that you don't agree with and would like to change? And why?
NDTV: Why are you working with Ranbir and Anushka? Why did you decide to change? You spoke about shooting with unknown actors so that you don't have a problem on location.
Anurag Kashyap: This film is shot a lot on the sets because it's shot in the '60s Bombay and '60s Bombay does not exist so I have to create it.
NDTV: But, Anushka asked what's the perception of a Hindi film heroine? There's no umbrellas and spot-boys. What's the perception of a hIndi film heroine?
Anurag Kashyap: No, no. The Hindi film heroine, what I don't like about our Hindi film actresses or characters on screen is the whole idea of them being girl next door. I just can't stand girl next door in real life.
NDTV: You didn't marry the girl next door, for sure.
Anurag Kashyap: No, I can't stand the idea of girl next door in real life. And I have always wanted to create those kind of women characters, who if I have met in real life, I would have either fallen for them or wanted to have an interaction or become much closer friends with them or admired them. So that's why my women character come out like that, and who are often judged by other people because, you know how women is, because she always decides how she is going to be, based on the man in her life, mostly. And that kind of sometimes bothers me. And I like actresses who respond to it with gusto, they take it as a challenge, they don't ask...the first question is not what dress am I going to wear or how am I going to look; but talk about the character, they talk about the story. So that's something I love about actresses. But I get very scared when they're only talking about their looks; that scares me off.
NDTV: But you've got a whole line. Because, I think, you've got 3 films on right now. What's your next line up?
Anurag Kashyap: No, no I've got. I do one film at a time.
NDTV: You've got Ugly...
Anurag Kashyap: Ugly I'm doing in October-November. And next year April I start shooting for Bombay Velvet, we start pre-producing; we've been working for a long time; we've been working for Bombay Velvet for six years. And the other film Doga, we've already started working on, which will happen a year after Bombay Velvet.
NDTV: Does Bombay Velvet scare you? Because it's a genre you haven't done.
Anurag Kashyap: It scared me for a long time. No, it scares me because I've never tackled that kind of money before. That's my experience. Making the film doesn't scare me; making a film that everybody is going to like and that kind of money that is what scares me. Because, you know, when there's no money then people just work hard, slog their ass off, and we come out with a film. There's a lot of money and the responsibility is on your shoulders, that's a little scary; that makes me fidgety.
NDTV: Anurag Kashyap, we're almost at the end of our show, what is the one film left that you want to make, you have many, many more films to make, so?
Anurag Kashyap: I have more than 20-30 films.
NDTV: But a film that stands out. Who are the actors left for you to...
Anurag Kashyap: I have 2 more films inside of me. But I want this whole Bombay Velvet to lead me to one film that I've been wanting to do for a very long time, Doga, which is based on Raj comics. And Bombay Velvet should allow me to reach that because that's much more larger than anything that anyone in the industry has ever done. So it's a dream.
NDTV: And actors you would like to work with?
Anurag Kashyap: There are a lot of actors. Matlab, I am working with Ranbir. I'll tell you the actors I really like, I like Ranvir Singh, I like Parineeti Chopra, I like Sonakshi Sinha, among the new ones. I loved Sridevi, I loved Madhuri; these are the people that I loved and they're not working anymore.
NDTV: But you have to get them back. As Anurag Kashyap, you have to convince them.
Anurag Kashyap: One day, I can work with Mr Bachhan. And Shah Rukh Khan.
NDTV: Of course. Anurag Kashyap as we end, and Shah Rukh Khan as well. What about Salman?
Anurag Kashyap: Salman, no. We'll look at things differently. And he wouldn't want to work with me, any which way. So, I don't know, I don't see that.
NDTV: As we end, one thing, Anurag, that you like about being part of the Hindi film industry and one thing you like the least?
Anurag Kashyap: I love being part of films. I love being part of films. I don't think there's anything else I'd like to have done in life.
NDTV: Anurag Kashyap, as I said, congratulations on Gangs of Wasseypur. You're a first in Indian cinema. Thank you for joining me today.
