New Delhi:
Faced with a pullout from a crucial ally - the DMK - over the Lankan Tamils issue, Parliamentary Affairs Minister Kamal Nath told NDTV that the government was open to proposing amendments in the US-sponsored resolution against Colombo at the upcoming Geneva session of the United Nation's top human rights body.
Here is the full transcript of the interview:
NDTV: With the DMK pulling the plug on the UPA government, the Government stands at the precarious precipitous. Will it fall over or can it still pull back from the grave? Joining us now is somebody who has a tough job and is unwell right now, Parliamentary Affairs Minister Kamal Nath. You are still smiling. Does that mean that in the back channels there still is a formula, a peace formula that could bring the DMK back?
Kamal Nath: We continue talking to the DMK. Some of their concerns are valid and we will try and find convergence.
NDTV: The talks failed when the three ministers went to meet Karunanidhi...Chidambaram, Ghulam Nabi Azad and Antony...and those talks failed. What gives you reason to believe that there is a window open?
Kamal Nath: Well, the UN resolution has only come late last night and we are looking at it today. DMK believes that resolution is not satisfactory. We are examining it and if that resolution is not satisfactory, then we will find ways, which make it satisfactory. It should be satisfactory to India first. It's not a question of being satisfactory to the DMK. It's important, the sensitivity of DMK is important but it must be satisfactory. It's just come late last night to us and we are looking at the resolution, being examined at all levels, then we will continue to engage with the DMK.
NDTV: So India could propose some amendments to the resolution at the UN?
Kamal Nath: If need be, because we are looking at the resolution that must be adequate, must really meet the concerns of the Tamil people. We can't have a resolution which is just going through the motions of the resolution; it must have substance and teeth.
NDTV: The DMK had indicated that one of possible solutions for it to return is a resolution in India's Parliament, in our Parliament. Is the government open to this and I ask you this because it is a serious question for India. Just now, you had our Parliament passing a unanimous resolution objecting to Pakistan interfering in Afzal Guru's execution or in the issue of Jammu and Kashmir. Are we willing to take a risk and bring in a similar resolution that pertains to another country in our Houses?
Kamal Nath: It's not a question, it's a question of human rights. We are still examining all these issues. We have not taken any decision to have a resolution or not have a resolution.
NDTV: But you are open to the idea of a parliamentary resolution?
Kamal Nath: No, we are open to the idea to examine it and talk to other political parties on this because there is sensitivity on this. The Tamil people strongly feel about it. It doesn't matter to those countries which don't have a Tamil population and it damages only those living in Tamil Nadu, it's about Tamils across the world. They have sentiments and they have sensitivity also, so we have to look at it very holistically.
NDTV: What are you picking up from other parties, as your job as the Parliamentary Affairs Minister, to create a concern? Are you picking up from the principal Opposition party that they would support a Sri Lanka-specific parliamentary resolution?
Kamal Nath: Well, I have not talked to any party but BJP has already come out publicly and said that they don't want to support any country-specific resolutions and they mentioned some points. That's the BJP point of view.
NDTV: That will not stop you from bringing the parliamentary resolution?
Kamal Nath: If we have to, we will have to locate it from our point of view, from the country's point of view and from other political points of view.
NDTV: But the criticism, Kamal Nath, of your government, will be that your foreign policy, this country's foreign policy is being dictated by your government's need to survive. Should political survival dictate foreign policy?
Kamal Nath: No. No, I don't think so. It's not dictated by survival. As I said, right in the beginning, we've got to see it meets India's interest, not that it meets the interest of the DMK and demands of the DMK. If it meets India's interest, we will go ahead with anything. It doesn't stop us. We have just got the UN resolution last night, that's what we are examining - whether it meets the interest of India. From that perspective, we have to take a decision.
NDTV: You are not being dictated by your desperate need to survive?
Kamal Nath: There is no question of desperate need to survive.
NDTV: There is the Budget to be passed, there are legislations to be passed. If the DMK pulls out, then you need both Mayawati and Mulayam Singh Yadav to stick with you in your key legislations.
Kamal Nath: In any parliamentary democracy, you see this in United States, you see this in Germany, you see it in France, you do seek the support of the other parties and so...
NDTV: You are a government in minority, Mamata Banerjee walks out, DMK backs out. Technically, you are the government in the minority...
Kamal Nath: Well, then, technically we were not the government in majority even on day one. That's the reality and in any parliamentary democracy, this is what is there is in all countries. It's there in India, so we had the numbers. So it's not that to survive, we need the DMK. We will have the numbers.
NDTV: You don't need the DMK to survive?
Kamal Nath: No, if the DMK pulls out, we still have the numbers, the government is stable.
NDTV: Mathematically, but it's a headache to get any legislations through.
Kamal Nath: It's a headache in any case. It's not a question of a headache. Today, you have to have in Parliament a successful consensus-building. That is why we had a meeting on the Criminal Law Amendment Bill. That is why we are having it on the Land Acquisition Bill. That is why we have it on so many other issues, so that we build a kind of a consensus, not a question of the majority. We can pass so many bills because of the majority we have, but we did not do that because we said that we must try and build consensus, that is the most important thing.
NDTV: Mrs Gandhi issued a statement this morning talking about how she, too, wanted a credible and independent investigation into the human rights violations in Sri Lanka. Is the Congress coming around to using the kind of language that the DMK has been pushing for? Are you going to support an international probe because the UN resolution calls actually for an internal probe to be conducted by Sri Lanka? Are you open to use the words like genocide? Are you not playing with fire because this would come back and bite us as a country on Jammu and Kashmir?
Kamal Nath: I don't think so. You cannot compare Jammu and Kashmir with Sri Lanka. I think we try and compare too many things which are not comparable and that is where we can possibly go wrong. We've got to look at Sri Lanka as Sri Lanka. We've got to look at the Tamil issue there as the Tamil issue in Sri Lanka and not start saying, "Oh! This will happen here and that will happen there." We need to realise that Pakistan is completely different to Sri Lanka. Here is a question of what is being shown on the television, what people have seen and it's people of Indian origin, the entire Tamil population is concerned about it. So we've got to address the concerns of our people. It's not the question to address the concerns of our party or address the concerns of another country. We've got to address the concerns of a large number of people in our country.
NDTV: Let me ask you in the end. Now you need both Mulayam Singh and Mayawati in key legislations and to pull you through in very critical moments. The Beni Prasad Verma episode where he attacked Mulayam Singh Yadav - that you regretted on his behalf. Is there going to be more action against Beni Prasad Verma to keep Mulayam on your side?
Kamal Nath: I don't think so. The matter was closed yesterday. The Samajwadi too had closed it and the matter is closed. We will see what's got to be done.
NDTV: Will you push him to apologise? You regretted what he said but he didn't.
Kamal Nath: Let him not, our party in its statement said we do not support his statement.
NDTV: Will there be action against him?
Kamal Nath: Well that's for the Prime Minister to decide that but I have said, I expressed regret about it in the Parliament yesterday.
NDTV: Are we looking at an early election?
Kamal Nath: No, we are not.
NDTV: You are confident of that?
Kamal Nath: Yes, we are confident.
NDTV: Does that mean you are confident of the DMK coming back or are you confident of both Mulayam Singh and Mayawati saving this government once again?
Kamal Nath: I am confident of the numbers with the DMK or without the DMK.
NDTV: You are confident of the numbers with the DMK or without the DMK. So it's not terribly important to you whether they come back or not?
Kamal Nath: It's not, that's why I said it's not that we are being dictated by anybody. We are being dictated by India's interest. We are being dictated by the interest of the people of our country, which includes the Tamils.
NDTV: Are you leaning towards a parliamentary resolution?
Kamal Nath: I am not leaning towards it, we are still discussing it. It is first that if we should have the resolution and then the question is, what will be the content of that resolution. These are the issues we are looking at.
NDTV: And channels are still open with DMK?
Kamal Nath: Of course channels are open.
NDTV: You have a busy day Kamal Nath?
Kamal Nath: Well, we will continue to engage with DMK.
NDTV: Critical time for the government, thank you for talking to us.