New Delhi:
She was India's iron lady, her first woman prime minister, and one of her last mass leaders. Even 25 years after her death, Indira Gandhi is regarded by many as the country's best prime minister. Her extensive agricultural and financial reforms are still relevant.
Yet, she is equally remembered for bringing Indian democracy nearly to its feet with her high-handedness.
NDTV: She was a tough woman...
Sonia Gandhi: She was at her best when faced with challenges. If she was pushed to the wall, there was pressure on her, she would come out and really fight back.
NDTV: Give some examples.
Sonia Gandhi: When there was a party split.
NDTV: In 1969?
Sonia Gandhi: Yes, she came out and fought.
NDTV: And the Bangladesh War.
A victory that was the signature of her foreign policy. Back home she was anointed Devi. But in four years, the mood turned bitter as she plunged the country into an emergency.
"There was a drought, there was high prices, the Opposition stepped up, railway strike was there, so all sorts of chaos were there in the country. And there was a thinking in the Cabinet, in the government, that some drastic action has to be taken to control the situation. Then came the judgment of Allahabad High Court and you know these people stepped up their complain that she must resign," says R K Dhawan, Indira's private secretary.
Faced with a possible loss of power, she broke every principle of democracy: A clampdown on the press, voices of dissent thrown in jail, and perhaps the most enduring memory: her son Sanjay Gandhi's forced vasectomy drives.
At the height of her unpopularity was her closest advisor on Emergency. Sidharth Shankar Ray would turn against her and later testify against her in the Shah Commission Inquiry.
"There were excesses, many excesses, but on instructions not from Indira, but the office of Sanjay. Om Mehta told me, they are going to lock up the High Courts and cut power to newspapers tonight. I said this is not on. Suddenly, Sanjay Gandhi came and shouted at me, you people don't know how to run the country. I demanded to see Indira but by that time it had happened," says Sidharth.
Ram Jethmalani, the lawyer and Janata Party leader who sent her jail once, and then defended her assassins, says it requires a fair opponent like him to understand what her strengths were.
"I am one of those who after Emergency was over had a great part in sending her to jail. But on other hand, when everything was over, she never treated me as enemy: Fair opponent in her own way. After Emergency, the rural voters voted against her and brought her down," said Ram Jethmalani.
As she lost the election, India amended Emergency laws to ensure a misuse of this nature never recurs.
Indira would literally rise from the ashes, capitalising on the divided Opposition to lead a landslide victory.
It was this last phase that would throw up her biggest challenge: The exploding Sikh insurgency.
She would play by every rule, out of the book: Using sectarianism, legitimising violence, finally using military force inside the Golden Temple.
Operation Blue Star would crown her Iron Lady, but it was the beginning of an end.
But equally in this aggressive avatar, many say Indira Gandhi is most missed today at a time the country is battling terrorism, Naxalism and insurgency.
"Today you have all kinds of debate going on all over the country including your channel on if can you use Army against Naxalites, can Indian helicopters fire in self-defense against Naxalites. Mrs Gandhi would not indulge in these hollow intellectual debates on tactical issues," says Shekhar Gupta, editor-in-chief, Indian Express.
Our West wary policies today began with her.
Yet, she held her own, asserting India's presence on the world stage, opening India's nuclear chapter with the 1974 Pokhran Test.
"I do think that her greatest achievement was giving India a sense of self confidence. When she was on the world stage, we felt we were very well represented, we thought we cannot be ignored. Today it doesn't look like a big deal, but in the 70s and 80s it was a big deal," says Gupta.
Even the Congress, as it is today, is more Indira Gandhi's baby than anyone else's, still following the tradition of sycophancy and dynastic politics she encouraged.
"The party is floundering because it has not lost its characteristic of sycophancy and is always ready to accept another child of the family," says Ram Jethmalani.
Since that October morning, as she was felled by her own Sikh bodyguards whom she had retained ignoring all warning.
It's not her political failures, rather her, her mass appeal, her charisma and her belief in an Idea of India that endures.
Yet, she is equally remembered for bringing Indian democracy nearly to its feet with her high-handedness.
NDTV: She was a tough woman...
Sonia Gandhi: She was at her best when faced with challenges. If she was pushed to the wall, there was pressure on her, she would come out and really fight back.
NDTV: Give some examples.
Sonia Gandhi: When there was a party split.
NDTV: In 1969?
Sonia Gandhi: Yes, she came out and fought.
NDTV: And the Bangladesh War.
A victory that was the signature of her foreign policy. Back home she was anointed Devi. But in four years, the mood turned bitter as she plunged the country into an emergency.
"There was a drought, there was high prices, the Opposition stepped up, railway strike was there, so all sorts of chaos were there in the country. And there was a thinking in the Cabinet, in the government, that some drastic action has to be taken to control the situation. Then came the judgment of Allahabad High Court and you know these people stepped up their complain that she must resign," says R K Dhawan, Indira's private secretary.
Faced with a possible loss of power, she broke every principle of democracy: A clampdown on the press, voices of dissent thrown in jail, and perhaps the most enduring memory: her son Sanjay Gandhi's forced vasectomy drives.
At the height of her unpopularity was her closest advisor on Emergency. Sidharth Shankar Ray would turn against her and later testify against her in the Shah Commission Inquiry.
"There were excesses, many excesses, but on instructions not from Indira, but the office of Sanjay. Om Mehta told me, they are going to lock up the High Courts and cut power to newspapers tonight. I said this is not on. Suddenly, Sanjay Gandhi came and shouted at me, you people don't know how to run the country. I demanded to see Indira but by that time it had happened," says Sidharth.
Ram Jethmalani, the lawyer and Janata Party leader who sent her jail once, and then defended her assassins, says it requires a fair opponent like him to understand what her strengths were.
"I am one of those who after Emergency was over had a great part in sending her to jail. But on other hand, when everything was over, she never treated me as enemy: Fair opponent in her own way. After Emergency, the rural voters voted against her and brought her down," said Ram Jethmalani.
As she lost the election, India amended Emergency laws to ensure a misuse of this nature never recurs.
Indira would literally rise from the ashes, capitalising on the divided Opposition to lead a landslide victory.
It was this last phase that would throw up her biggest challenge: The exploding Sikh insurgency.
She would play by every rule, out of the book: Using sectarianism, legitimising violence, finally using military force inside the Golden Temple.
Operation Blue Star would crown her Iron Lady, but it was the beginning of an end.
But equally in this aggressive avatar, many say Indira Gandhi is most missed today at a time the country is battling terrorism, Naxalism and insurgency.
"Today you have all kinds of debate going on all over the country including your channel on if can you use Army against Naxalites, can Indian helicopters fire in self-defense against Naxalites. Mrs Gandhi would not indulge in these hollow intellectual debates on tactical issues," says Shekhar Gupta, editor-in-chief, Indian Express.
Our West wary policies today began with her.
Yet, she held her own, asserting India's presence on the world stage, opening India's nuclear chapter with the 1974 Pokhran Test.
"I do think that her greatest achievement was giving India a sense of self confidence. When she was on the world stage, we felt we were very well represented, we thought we cannot be ignored. Today it doesn't look like a big deal, but in the 70s and 80s it was a big deal," says Gupta.
Even the Congress, as it is today, is more Indira Gandhi's baby than anyone else's, still following the tradition of sycophancy and dynastic politics she encouraged.
"The party is floundering because it has not lost its characteristic of sycophancy and is always ready to accept another child of the family," says Ram Jethmalani.
Since that October morning, as she was felled by her own Sikh bodyguards whom she had retained ignoring all warning.
It's not her political failures, rather her, her mass appeal, her charisma and her belief in an Idea of India that endures.
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