New York:
In an exclusive interview, Pakistani Foreign Minister Shah Mehmood Qureshi spoke to NDTV ahead of his meeting with Indian Foreign Minister S M Krishna.
Qureshi said that he will discuss setting up back channel talks between India and Pakistan. He also clarified that alleged Mumbai attack mastermind Hafiz Saeed is not under house arrest; only his movements will be restricted.
When you left for New York, you said you were sans hope? How do you feel now that the foreign secretaries have met? How did the talks go?
I will judge that once I have met the Foreign Minister. The foreign secretaries discussed the agenda and format for tomorrow's meeting. Let's see how it goes tomorrow.
I am here to engage constructively and positively. I feel there is room to move forward. I am here to act on the decision taken by the two Prime Ministers at Sharm El Sheikh - that the Foreign Ministers will meet to carry the dialogue forward, because according to Dr Manmohan Singh that is the only way forward.
But India's stand is clear. There will be no steps forward until Pakistan takes action against the perpetrators of the Mumbai attacks. Keeping this in mind, tell us what Pakistan will bring to the table at the Foreign Ministers' meeting?
I have some positive suggestions to make, even on Mumbai. I have suggestions on how we should engage in the future vis-à-vis terrorism. Terrorism is important to you. It is equally important to us. We are victims. You have had one tragic incident. We have these tragic incidents on a daily basis. How do we engage? How do we deal with this menace? By accusing each other or by engaging with each other? I think the sensible way forward is by engaging and cooperating with each other.
So will you be bringing up Baluchistan?I do not have to tell you that now. (Laughs)
India has said that your placing Hafiz Saeed under house arrest is window dressing. Will you bring S M Krishna up to date on the progress of the investigations?
I am not in a mood to window dress. I think we have fudged the issues too long. I think because of our dilly-dallying, South Asia has suffered. Our people have suffered. We see poverty, misery and backwardness. We see millions on both sides of the border living beneath the poverty line. Is that our destiny? No. I want to see that changed. It can only change if we provide leadership and vision. I think Pakistan is ready to provide that leadership.
Many Indians believe that the soft treatment towards Hafiz Saeed tells Jihadis that they are safe as long as they target India. Have other Jihadi organizations been empowered by this?
I think India is stuck in a groove. Pakistan has moved on. Pakistan is looking at this issue as a common issue. We feel that we have a common enemy and we need to collectively deal with this menace called terrorism. There are no sides; we are on the same page. We are on the same side. I am on your side. If people get killed in Mumbai it hurts me. It does not please me.
I was in Delhi when the tragic incident took place. What was I doing in Delhi? I was there to build bridges. I was there with a message of love and peace. We have been fighting for 60 years. I think the time has come to move on and to agree on some thing. I say lets agree on a new beginning. Lets agree to cooperate on terrorism.
Is naming top diplomat Riaz Khan as special envoy for informal peace talks with India, one way to do that? What's India's reaction?
I am going to discuss this with the Indian Foreign Minister and find out his views on the back channel. I have my views on the back channel. I want to hear his views. I will share my thoughts and views tomorrow.
Why do you think having a back channel is a good idea?I will share it with him first, and talk to you after. (Laughs) I'd like that. Certainly.
After several years of building up a positive momentum, 26/11 clearly marked a significant downturn in the history of Indo-Pak relations. A year later, we are still seeing the after effects. Is this a lasting setback or just temporary?
It depends on you (India).
But India says it depends on Pakistan; on whether Pakistan takes action against Hafiz Saeed.
Pakistan is willing to move on and Pakistan is very clear that we are not going to allow a bunch of terrorists or non-state actors to dictate policy to us. We will determine our own agenda. We have an agenda of peace and development for South Asia.
But if 2 cases have been filed against him, the logical step is that he should be arrested. Is he going to be arrested?
That is for the legal process in Pakistan to decide. There are procedures and we have to follow procedures. There is an independent judiciary in Pakistan, thank God for that. You have an independent judiciary in India and you know how cumbersome the legal process can be. We will not be soft on any one who wants to move out of line on government policy.
The legal process can be cumbersome, but facts are facts. India says you have been given a whole dossier on Hafiz Saeed. Then why is there a problem in taking action against him.
Believe you me. We will certainly take action against him, but we have got to have a case that will be tenable. Because if we take a case into court - a half baked case - and if the court sets him free, you will accuse us of collusion and there will be drama. We are not in a mood to collude with terrorists.
But India says there is proof that Hafiz Saeed met Kasab at terrorist training camps, and that Saeed made the final phone call to the terrorists in Mumbai. Do you not consider this to be evidence?
That is for the court to determine, but we want the case to proceed in a manner that is foolproof. We want the prosecution to lead to conviction, because I think people who take innocent lives should be punished.
So what should one expect from this meeting?It is up to the Indian mindset. Pakistan has a positive mind. If you are shy, hesitant and drag your feet, nothing will come out of the meeting. But, if the Indian leadership has vision, then the sky is the limit.
According to India, Pakistan claims to have arrested Hafiz Saeed. But the Punjab police chief say he hasn't?
He is not under house arrest.
He is not?Nobody said he was under house arrest.
Sir, are you saying now that he is not under house arrest? No action has been taken against him?
No action has been taken against him. He made a provocative speech at Faisalabad and the government of Punjab has taken action against him. They have filed two cases against him. He is under observation and his movement is restricted.
But this has nothing to do with Mumbai?No, these two cases have nothing to do with Mumbai.
But you are taking steps to act against him in the cotext of the Mumbai attacks?Tomorrow! Wait! (Laughs)
So you will be telling the Indian Foreign Minister about the actions you will take. Is that correct?
Yes.
Before you left for New York you said you were skeptical...I still have my question marks.
Then at the UN you said you had a positive mind.I still have a positive mind.
You told NDTV that President Zardari asked you to move forward. How do you plan to move forward in your meeting with Minister Krishna?
I am full of positive ideas. I am a person who has always been advocating peace and normalization. It is in Pakistan and India's interest.
The Indian Prime Minister said on Friday that moving forward depends on when Pakistan stops using terror as a state policy. Your response please.
My opinion of the Indian Prime Minister is that he is a thinking man. He has his heart in the right place. He is an academic. He is well-meaning. I still hold that opinion. I understand the pressures of internal Indian politics.
And is it because of internal Pakistani politics that you can't take action against Hafiz Saeed?
Pakistani politics is speaking a different language. There is unanimity. All the major political players in Pakistan agree that they want composite dialogue with India. We are all in favor of composite dialogue. We do not view India negatively despite the fact that we have some issues.
What issues?We have many outstanding issues.
Like?Kashmir, water. These cannot be shoved under the carpet. But we want to move in a pragmatic and realistic manner. I feel incremental progress is better than no progress.
President Zardari raised the issue of Kashmir at the UN yesterday. Does this mean you are also going to do so with Minister Krishna?
I have a number of items that I want to talk about. If he wants to talk about Mumbai and terror so be it. I will listen and respond. But there are certain issues that I want to talk about and I hope that he has the same frame of mind.
You say you want composite dialogue. India says composite dialogue is not possible unless action is taken against the Mumbai attack perpetrators. How do you break the deadlock?
The point is that you (India) want to make it conditional.
But 166 lives were lost. Some thing needs to be done.Hundreds of lives are lost in Pakistan too. Lives are important. I have sympathy for each and every family that lost their near and dear ones in Mumbai. I feel for them. But should we remain hostage to an event, or should we learn from that tragic event and put into place an architecture of engagement so that we do not have a Mumbai again?
Finally, amidst all this hectic diplomacy are you getting a chance to watch the cricket match at the Centurion?
(Laughs) I am busy at the UN. I wish I could. I think sporting activities should be encouraged. They generate friendship and good will. We have excellent players both in cricket and hockey. The people are so warm towards each other, but we are not allowing the people to take the lead. I think if the bureaucracies stepped back and the people came forward, things would normalise much faster.