This is Arvind Kejriwal's first interview since he became the Chief Minister of Delhi
NDTV: Hello and welcome to this big NDTV exclusive. He is the Chief Minister with the maximum majority in the Assembly of all Chief Ministers across India; his sweep of Delhi is something which is still spoken about and discussed by political observers and commentators alike. But as the Arvind Kejriwal government completes a little over 100 days in office, how would he analyze his own performance? At the moment of course the Chief Minister is locked in a fierce battle for political autonomy with the Lt Governor of Delhi, a matter that has now reached the court. His critics say he is squandering his enormous mandate, his supporters say he is simply asserting his democratic right as an elected Chief Minister. Joining us now to talk about his standoff with the Lt Governor and also many many other issues, in his first full length interview since becoming Chief Minister, is Arvind Kejriwal himself. Welcome to the programme, sabse pehle main aapse poochna chahungi why are we meeting you after so long? Aap to ek aise politician theey jo har sawaal le lete theey, journalists se milte theey, interviews dete theey, sau din ke baad ek interview aisa kyu? Media ke saath itni narazgi kyu?
Arvind Kejriwal: Narazgi thodi hai, kaam bhi to karna hai. Logo ne media se baat karne ke liye vote thodi diye theey, logoon ne kaam karne ke liye vote diye theey aur khoob kaam kiya hai pichley 100 din mein. Bahut kaam kiya hai.
NDTV: Aapne kaha bahut kaam kiya hai, what is something that you consider your biggest achievement and your biggest regret? Main pehle aapse aapki khud ki evaluation jaana chahti hoon about your performance.
Arvind Kejriwal: Dekhiye, humne jo kaha hum vo kar rahe hai
NDTV: Udharan ke taur par?
Arvind Kejriwal: Humne, sabse zaada log dukhi theey bijli aur paani ke billo se. Humne kaha tha hum bijli ke bill kum kardenge, humne bijli ke bill kam karke dikha diye, within a few days jaise hi humari sarkaar bani, kuch dino ke ander humne bijli ke bill kam kardiye, aur janta itni khush hai, itni khush hai, across the board aap poori Dilli ke andar kisi se baat kae lejiye. Humne kaha hum paani ke bill kum karengay, 20,000 litre paani har parivaar ko humne muft karke dikha diya. Jab hum ye vaade kar rahe theey, logoon ne kaha.
NDTV: Kyu kar rahe hai?
Arvind Kejriwal: Ye to vaise hi kar rahe hai, agar bijli ke bill kum kardiye to bijli ki availability kum ho jayegi, ye waali summer main aapko challenge kar raha hoon, aap pichli summer se compare karlena, bijli ki availability sabse adhik hone wali hai, power cuts thode bahut lag rahe hai, we are keeping, hare ek power cut pe hum nazar rakh rahe hain aur uske uppar ab detailed guidelines bhi aane wali hai ki jo bijli ki company...
NDTV: Kyunki load shedding abhi bhi ho rahi hai.
Arvind Kejriwal: Thodi bahut ho rahi hai, mereko saare daily report aati hai meri table ke uppar jaha jaha load shedding ho rahi hai, bijli ki availability sabse zaaada is baar summers mein hogi, paani ki availability sabse zaada is baar summers ke andar, paani ki kami nahi hai is baar Dilli mein, is baar local faults ho sakti hain, jaise abhi thode din pehle matiya mahal mein paani ki line toot gayi thi. Teen-chaar din paani nahi aaya, aap logo ne, TV walo ne khoob dikhaya tha, to paani ki availability sabse zaada hone wali hai. Kisaan atmahatya kar rahe hai poore desh ke andar ek sabse bada kaaran atmahatya ka hai ki abhi baarishein hui thi, baarishon mein kisanoo ki fasle barbaad ho gayi aur vo, unke paas paisa nahi thaa, aur unke paas apna loan chukane ke liye nahi thaa. Dilli ne, Dilli sarkaar ne sabse zaada muaavza aaj tak ke bharat ke ithiaas ka, jo ye dikhata hai ki hum log kisanoo ke prati kitne committed hain. 50,000 rupaay hectare ke hisaab se humne Dilli mein kisanoo ko muavzaa na kewal declare kiya, normally kya hota hai agar main is saal Sarkaar declare karti hai to muavzaa milne mein logo ko do-do teen-teen saal lag jaate hain. Humne declare karne ke baad muavzaa batna bhi chalu ho gaya logoon ka, ab grievances...
NDTV: Lekin...
Arvind Kejriwal: Just one second, just one second, uske baad hum logo ne bhrashtrachar ke khilaaf, corrouption ke khilaaf kitna kaam kiya hai poori Dilli ke ander aaj dare hue hain, koi bhi paise lene se darta hai Dilli sarkaar ke offices ke andar, ye aap apna survey, apni team bhej ke dekh lijiye ga, dummy customer ban ke dekheyega, main kai volunteers ko bhej bhej ke ye checking karata hoon.
NDTV: Are you still encouraging sting operations to catch corrouption?
Arvind Kejriwal: Certainly, vo to hai 1031 abhi bhi chaloo hai, 1031 chaloo rehni chahiye hai jo telephone line hai, bhrashtachar kum kiya, PWD ki sadkein, 1260 Km sadke hai PWD ki hum logo ne pichley ek mahine ke andar PWD ki saari sadkon pe saare gaddhe band karwadiye. PWD ki ek bhi sadak pe ghada nahi hai, agar ghadda ho main aapke channel ke zariye logoon ko kehna chah raha hoon hume phone kare turant ghadda, sadak ke uppar ghadda bhara jayega, ye choti koi mean achievement nahi hai. Humne mahilaoon ki suraksha ke liye bola tha, buso ke andar 200 buso mein trial basis pe CCTV camera lag gaye hain, ab Budget aa raha hai, Budget ke andar Dilli mein saari buso ke andar CCTV camera lagvaye jayengay.
NDTV: Because you promised thousands of them
Arvind Kejriwal: Humne saari...
NDTV: Kai hazaar CCTV cameras ki zaroorat padi hai aapko...
Arvind Kejriwal: Wo to saari Dilli mein lagengay, usme samay lagega thoda sa
NDTV: Thoda sa aap jab kehte hain...
Arvind Kejriwal: Ah. Lagega abhi thoda samay lagega, aapko bata dengey toh buso ke andar CCTV camera bhi lag jayengay jaldi saari buso main, 200 main lag chuke hain, marshalls buso ke andar jaldi lagane ka plan. Aur is tarah se abhi kal Manish Sisodia ne announce kiya, humne kaha thaa ki baarvi ke baad jab bacche admission lete hain unke paas kai baar paisa nahi hota, colleges ki fees bahut zaada badh gayi hai. Hum logo ne 10 laakh rupay tak ka loan baccho ka aa, us, vo kardia hai ki ab aapko guarantee dene ki zaroorat nahi hai, aapka kahi bhi kisi bhi college mein admission hua, aap admission lijiye, aapke parents ko koi guarantee nahi deni, aapko koi guarantee nahi deni, koi zameen girvi nahi rakhni, koi ghar girvi nahi rakhna. Form bhariye 10 laakh rupay ka aapko loan mil jayega. Jab aapki naukri lagegi, tab aap asaan kishton ke andar 10 saal ya 15 saal ke andar apna loan chuka dijiyega.
NDTV: Acha aapne bijli ki baat ki hai, electricity has been a major part...
Arvind Kejriwal: Pehli baat 100 din mein kaafi kaam kiya hai...
NDTV: Main bijli ka ek sawaal pehle...
Arvind Kejriwal: Raat din kaam kiya hai.
NDTV: Business Standard mein ek article tha 27th May ka talking about the electricity tribunal actually recommending an increase in the electricity prices. Aapne bhi dekha hoga. How are you dealing with this? Because a lot of people, a lot of economists have argued ki aapki jo ye model hai of the subsidity in electricity its not viable. Ab tribunal bhi kehti hai ki paise badaiye, daam badaiye.
Arvind Kejriwal: Kisliye daam badaiye? Pehle audit to karalein, audit report to aani chahiye. Aap ye to manengay ke aapka jaise NDTV hai, iska bhi har saal audit hota hai, saari companion ka audit hota hai, bijli companyion ka audit nahi karate ye log. Humne CAG ko diya hua hai, ab CAG jaldi audit report poora karne wala hai. Audit report aa jaaye, audit report aayegi to dekhte hai kitna nuksaan hai.
NDTV: So biggest achievement, one biggest achievement?
Arvind Kejriwal: Biggest achievement bijli, paani, anti-corruption, farmers compensation kitni saari biggest achievements hain.
NDTV: Biggest regret, I'll also ask that, so far?
Arvind Kejriwal: Matlab agar Dilli ko poorn rajya ka darja hota toh hum aur teezi se kaam kar sakte theey.
NDTV: Full state?
Arvind Kejriwal: Haan full state. Lekin mujhe ye lagta hai ki ye ladai bhi abhi ladni padegi andar baith kea ur ek aur cheez hui hai, jis tarah se humne immandaari ke saath sarkaar chalani shuru ki hai, ye aadat nahi thi syatem ko, system was not used to this, iski vajah se bahut saare vested interests ek saath aa gaye hain aur vo saare attack karne ki koshish kar rahe hain. Bahut bade bade political interests ek saath aa gaye hain vo attack karne ki koshish kar rahe hain, to ye sangharsh...
NDTV: Whose interests? Ye kaun hain ye vested interests, ye political interests? Are you saying ki poori political establishment hi ek tarah se compromised hai, are you painting everybody with one brush?
Arvind Kejriwal: Nahi, main sabko nahi, andar acche log bhi hai bure log bhi hain, umm humne 49 din sarkkar chalayi aur logoon ko 49 din ki sarkaar itni pasand aayi unhone hume 66 seats de di, ab hum 66 seats ke baad ye sarkaar chala rahe hain. Ab ye saari partyian peeche padi hai ki agar inhone Dilli ki sarkaar achi chala li aur ye 66 seat hi hawa doosre rajyo mein beh gayi to inka kya haal hoga? To ye, jitna ye L-G sahaab ke through kara rahe hain, aap aam aadmi se jaake pooch, yaha se na bahaar nikal ke autoricksha lena ek, use poochna ki kya chal raha hai Dilli mein? Mereko bahut log aate hai Dilli batate hai ji taxi driver keh raha tha, rickshaw wala keh raha tha phalana. Sab log keh rahe hai ki L-G ki himmat thodi hai jo is tarah ke kaam karega, Modi ji kara rahe hain, Modi ji pechay pade hue hai, vo Kejriwal ko safal nahi hone dena chahte, vo kara rahe hain.
NDTV: Kyu Modi ji ko Kejriwal ji se kya takleef?
Arvind Kejriwal: Modi ji ko jaise 66 seat Dilli ke andar aayi, agar yehi hawa poore desh ke andar beh gayi to kya haal hoga BJP ka? 66 seat abhi tak kya thaa? Lok Sabha chunaav mein Bhartiya Janata Party jeeti, uske baad Haryana jeeti, uske baad Maharashtra jeeti, to ek ye hua ye ki Ashwamegh rath ka ghoda jo hai ye ruk nahi sakta. Dilli mein ye aisa ruka aisa ruka ki unko umeed nahi thi. To ab toh do cheezein ho rahi hai ab unko yeh dar hai ki bahaar kahi aisa na ho jaye, aur doosra vo ab badla lene pe uttar aaye hain, jo itna bhaari mandate logoon ne diya uska badla lene ki Dilli ki janta se badla lene pe uttar aaye hain. Dilli ke andar is tarah se Dilli ki janta ko sataya ja raha hai jaise main aapko do-teen example dena chahoonga. Jaise Dilli ke andar jhuggian hain, humne promise kiya hai, humne kaha paach saal de do, humne bada elaborate plan uska bhi bana rahe hai hum log. Paanch saal dedo Dilli mein jhuggion ke badle hum unko pakke makaan de dengey, jhuggiwaloon ko todo mat aap. It is inhuman. Unke bulldozer chala dete hain, samaan bahaar phek dete hai, bada rona peetna machta hai, kuch log mar jaate hain, humne kaha ye mat karo hume paach saal de do, ek, ek karke eke ke kyunki DDA ki land pe hai. L-G sahaab eke ke karke eke ke karke jhuggion ko tudwate ja rahe hain. Kitni baar humne request kiya ki jhuggian mat tudwao...
NDTV: What does he say jab aapne unse baat cheet to kyunki aap through this fight you keep meeting him.
Arvind Kejriwal: Of course, von ahi maan rahe vo...
NDTV: Ek baat bataiye, when you meet do you talk politely?
Arvind Kejriwal: We actually hug each other.
NDTV: You are hugging each other?
Arvind Kejriwal: Humari koi...
NDTV: You and the Lt Governor hugging each other while the whole country is waiting to see what the Supreme Court will do.
Arvind Kejriwal: Humari koi personal ladai thodi hai, humari koi personal nahi. Doosra jaise main aapko example doonga, ESMA laga DTC ki strike hui abhi thode din pehle.
NDTV: Essential services.
Arvind Kejriwal: Haan DTC ki strike hui, poora din humne socha bhai ki ek hadsaa ho gaya thaa, we should wait for some time. Lekin raat tak humne dekha ki vo strike bund nahi ho rahi thi aur kareeb 30 laakh Dilli mein commuters hai jinko bahut dikkat ho rahi thi. Toh raat ko humne decide kia ki ESMA lagane ki zaroorat hai. Sade dus baje raat ko mere ghar pe file aayi hai, maine raat ko sade dus baje file sign ki. Yaha se L-G sahib ka ghar 10 minute ka bhi nahi hai, 5 minute ka distance hai. Yaha se file unke ghar pe gayi, unhone kaha ki soo gaye hain abhi nahi uth sakte. ESMA lagana hai uthna chahiye, important cheez hai, vo nahi uthe. Subah 6 baje sign kardete, 7 baje sign kardete, 8 baje sign kardete, 9 baje sign kardete, 10 baje unhone file sign kari jab tak ki 25 laakh log apne gharon se daftar pahuch chuke theey aur unko jo takleef honi thi. Busein chal nahi rahi thi aur buri tarah se janta trahi trahi thi, 10 baje file sign kari, 10 baje tak ESMA laga aur 12 baje tak strike toot gayi. ESMA ki wajah se strike tooti. Toh ek tarah se badla le rahe hai Dilli ki janta se, suniye ek minute suniye, janta ke saath. Manish Deputy Chief Minister hain, L-G sahab 10 baje se 6 baje ke alawa aap unhe phone kar lijiye ye Manish kai baar phonr karte hain, phone nahi uthta unka. Saturday ko phone kijiye phone nahi uthta. Sunday ko phone kijiye phone nahi uthta. Vo abhi humare Power Minister, Tuesday ko humare Power Minister ne unse time manga milne ke liye, Power Minister time mang raha hai. Ho sakta hai Dilli mein bijli ki koi badi emergency ho, turant milna chahiye thaa, aaj subah time diya, chaar din baad ka time diya unhone jabki BJP ke MLA ki shaadi mein jaane ke liye unke paas time rehta hai, Manish ka phone nahi uthate par Sunday ko chaar baje apna daftar khol ke humare khilaaf FIR. Agar aaj Amit Shah ka chaukidaar L-G sahaab ko phone karke bulaye pait ke bal rengte hue hale jayengay L-G sahaab.
NDTV: Lekin aapne kaha humari ladai personal nahi hai?
Arvind Kejriwal: Ek minute, just one second, just one second, what I am trying to say is ye L-G headquarter, L-G ka, L-G sahaab ka jo ghar hai vo ek tarah se BJP ka doosra headquarter ban gaya hai. Aur L-G sahaab ek tarah se BJP ke polling agent ki tarah behave kar rahe hain. He's not acting like a Lt Governor of Delhi, he's not protecting the interests of the people of Delhi. Lekin main ek cheez kehna chahta hoon ye jitna bhi struggle hai, ye struggle humara hai, I am acting as a shield between the struggle and the people of Delhi. Dilli ki janta pe governance ka koi asar nahi padne de rahe hum log, sarkaar khoob badiya chal rahi hai, sarkaar khoob achi chal rahi hai. Bijli, paani ki availability hai, khoob saare school kholne jaa rahe hain, ek hazaar dispensary kholne ja rahe hain Dilli ke andar. Humne saari sadko ke ghadde bhar diye, Dilli ki sarkaar bahut achi chal rahi hai. main is poore taa, jo ye poora jhagda chal raha hai, iske aur Dilli ki janta ke beech mein shield hoon. Iska asar kewal itna pada hai sarkaar pe ki daily mujhko do-teen ghante L-G sahib key aha se love letter aa jata hai, phir uska jawaab...
NDTV: Aur aap bhi likhte hain vaapis!
Arvind Kejriwal: Uska phir.
NDTV: But these love letters, you are saying ki one of the reasons motivating them is an insecurity in the BJP, ki aapki performance kis tarah se rahi aur ye doosri jagah replicate na ho jaye, so you are calling it political insecurity of Narendra Modi?
Arvind Kejriwal: Political insecurity of BJP led by Shri Narendra Modi. Doosra hai bhrashtachar, saare bhrashtachari, ACB pe attack kyu ho raha hai aap bataiye?
NDTV: Anti Corrouption Bureau.
Arvind Kejriwal; 21 saal mein ACB ko attack nahi kia, 21 saal mein kisi Lt Governor ne ye nahi kaha ki ACB mere under mein aati hai kabhi kaha? Par ab vo kehte hai ACB.....
NDTV: Par 21 saal mein Mukhya Mantra ne bhi Llt Governor se ladai nahi kari
Arvind Kejriwal: 21 saal mein kisi Mukhya Mantri ne anti corrouption banch ke zariye corrouption kab bhi to nahi kiya thaa. Ab main aapko ek chitthi leke aaya hoon, ek chitthi dikhata hoon ek ye ha. Ye pichle saal CBI ne ye chitthi 1st September 2014 ki chitthi, hai jab humari sarkaar nahi thi jab President Rule tha. Ye CBI ne chitthi Dilli sarkaar ko likhi hai transport department ke andar ek case chal raha tha Shiela Dikshit ji ke time ka, bhrashtachar ka, bahut bade bhrashtachar ka jisme former Chief Secretary ji involved the. Former Chief, Shiela ji ke Principal Secretary. Kai logo ke naam theey uske andar. Uss case ko L-G sahab ne band kardia. Isme CBI ne lika hai main padta hoon, "enquiry has thus established that the request of anti-corruption branch for sanction of prosecution of the A4 sets, 2 sets of officers", do sets kaun se hai Mister? Naam lena theek nahi hai, ek Chief Secretary theey, ek Principal Secretary theey, "was mandatorily required to be sent to the Central government for taking a final decision on the matter. But this was prima-facie irregulary declined by the L-G in city of Delhi." L-G sahib ne in dono ko prosecute karne ki permission dene ke liye mana kardia...
NDTV: Par aap keh rahe hain he was...
Arvind Kejriwal: To vo chah rahe hain...
NDTV: Protecting Sheila Dikshit, he's also the polling agent of the BJP, to kya dono ke ki representative hai?
Arvind Kejriwal: Saare ikkhatte ho gaye hain. Ek minute, just right, let me tell. Toh basically vo anti-corruption pe kyu control karna chahte hain? Humne jitney logoon ko pakda hai, jitney logo ke khilaaf case kiye hain, un sab logoon ke case ye band karna chahte hain, ek aur chitthi dikhata hoon aaj main leke aaya hoon, un saare logo ke case band kiye hai inhone, ye dekhiye humne Dilli ke ek police wale ke khilaaf FIR kardi paise lete hue, ye Dilli ke Lt Governor me chitthi likhi hai mujhe jisme vo kehte hai ye case aap apni anti corruption branch se transfer kar dijiye. Kya interest hai ji L-G sahaab ka ek police waale ke rishwat lene mein, kyu karna chahte hain? Toh do cheezein chal rahi hai saath saath. L-G sahib ke zariye Kendra sarkaar Aam Aadmi Party ko har jagah archan arana chahti hai aur Dilli police ke zariye hum logoon ko target karna chahti hai.
NDTV: Okay, one minute now. Anti-Corruption Bureau, jo debate chal rahi hai, why do you need officers from Bihar? Isme ek sawaal utha hai jaha tak mujhe Constitution ki samaj hai, you can correct me, there are three areas in which the Lt Governor has more authority than the Chief Minister. Usme police aur land aur roads, teen categories aati hai. Ab Lt Governor ki argument hai ki ACB is about the police, these appointments have to go through me. Why are you getting people from Bihar, Arvind? Ye kya ek political khel hai jisme aap non-Congress non-BJP parties ke saath alliance build karne ki chakkar mein hain?
Arvind Kejriwal: Yeh 2012 ki chitthi hai, Andaman Nicobar Police se deputation pe log aaye theey. CISF se police mein, CISF se anti corruption branch mein log aaye theey, aisa nahi hai ki mai pehli baar le raha hoon. Kitni baar kitney loog aa chuke hai anti-corruption branch mein deputation ke uppar. L-G to kya Mukhya Mantra ke paas bhi file nahi gayi, ye aaj main leke aaya hoon file. Isme Dilli ki anti-corruption branch , ye anti-corruption branch ke humare officer ka sign hai, usne Andaman Nicobar ke DG Police ko chitthi likhi ki hume 30 inspector chahiye.
NDTV: This is 2011?
Arvind Kejriwal: This is 2011.
NDTV: During Shiela Dikshit's time?
Arvind Kejriwal: During Shiela, 2011 mein 30 inspector maange unhone aur agle din unke paas chitthi aa gayi ki hum aapko inspector bhej rahe hain. That's it. Do chitthi bas. Koi L-G ke paas file nahi gayi, koi Mukhya Mantri ke paas file nahi gayi, koi Mantri ke paas file nahi gayi, koi Chief Secretary ke paas file nahi gayi. Ab L-G sahaab ye keh rahe hai ki inspector ki bhi posting main karunga, chaprasi ki bhi posting main karunga, iski bhi posting vo poora ka poora control karna chahte hain humari sarkaar ko.
NDTV: There are people who say...
Arvind Kejriwal: Hum control nahi hone denge.
NDTV: There are people who say politically Arvind Kejriwal is right, legally he is wrong. Ye ek analysis kiya ja sakta hai.
Arvind Kejriwal: Legally we are right, Dilli High Court ne humare favour mein judgement de diya, abhi toh diya. Dilli High Court ne kaha hai anti-corruption branch Dilli Sarkar ke under hai, aapne pada judgement?
NDTV: Ji bilkul padha.
Arvind Kejriwal: Bahut badiya judgement hai. Ye log ye keh rahe hai ki samvyadhan mein nahi likha anti-corruption inke under mein aata hai, Assembly ne nahi kaha, ye kehte hai ki hum Assembly ko bhi nahi manengay, hum court ko bhi nahi manengay, hum samvyadhan ko bhi nahi manangey, kisi cheez ko nahi maanangey, hum apni chalangeyay, bas.
NDTV: But Delhi High Court which initially called the Home Ministry notification suspect, jab vo mamla Supreme Court mein pahucha, Supreme Court ne kaha, let us not get influenced by the word suspect, hum isko apne merits pe try karengay.
Arvind Kejriwal: Us paragraph ko chod do aap.
NDTV: Theek hai.
Arvind Kejriwal: Lekin baaki jiudgement pado, baaki judgement mein unhone anti-corruption branch ki powers ko define kiya hai, jurisdiction ko define kiya hai, unhone kaha hai anti-corruption branch poori tarah se Dilli sarkaar ke control mein aati hai, uske uppar L-G sahib ka aur Kendra sarkaar ka koi control nahi hai, this is Delhi High Court order, I am not saying this.
NDTV: But the BJP is making the argument that Arvind Kejriwal wants to believe he is the Chief Minister of a full state, he's not, he is actually...
Arvind Kejriwal: Acha...
NDTV: Ek minute. Ek minute. Ek unke spokesperson hai Nalin Kohli, unne mere show pe bola he's a glorified Municipal Commissioner, vo kis duniya mein reh rahe hai ki vo full state ke Mukhya Mantri hain.
ArvindcKejriwal: Jo marji bole Nalin Kohli ji, main unko ye kehna chahta hoon, issi kism ki rajneeti unhone Dilli chunav ke pehle ki thi aur kya haal ho gaya unka. Yehi rajneeti karte rahe to unki yehi haal doosre rajyo mein bhi hone wala hai.
NDTV: But in the Assembly when you all passed a special resolution, aapne baat ki of having a dedicated service of bureaucrats for Delhi alone. Iska matlab Arvind aap bhi maan rahe hain ki abhi ye shared services hain, aap bhi maan rahe hai ki abhi full statehood ka darza Dilli ko nahi hai!
Arvind Kejriwal: Milna chahiye!
NDTV: Milna chahiye is a separate argument from hai ki nahi.
Arvind Kejriwal: Mote, mote taur pe.
NDTV: Are you legally entitled to be the Chief Minister of a full state? You are not. This is not a full state.
Arvind Kejriwal: Mote, mote taur pe teen cheezeien humare paas nahi hain, public order.
NDTV: Yes
Arvind Kejriwal: Police aur land.
NDTV: Yes.
Arvind Kejriwal: Baaki cheezon mein to karne do. Ab Power Secretary kaun banega ye to hum tay karengay, anti-corruption branch mein kaunsa officer aayega yeh to hum tay karengay, Jal Board mein kaun banega, kal ko paani nahi milega Dilli ke andar toh usko koi junior engineer kahi gadbad kar raha hai. Aapke area mein paani nahi aa raha, aapka Junior Engineer kuch kar nahi raha, Aap mere ko phone karo ki Arvind, "mere area mein paani nahi aa raha", mein Junior Engineer ko hata hi nahi sakta, woh L-G sahab hataenge aur L-G sahab BJP se mile hue hai. Woh kehete hai, "mein nahi hatata". Toh mein paani kaise dilwaunga aapko batao? Nahi dilwaunga paani toh JE mujhe aakhein dikhayega kehta hai kar liye jo karega, toh woh to mein nahi dila sakta.Toh yeh kya karna chah rahe hai? Yeh keh rahe hai ki ab saare afsaron ki posting hum karenge, inspector ki posting hum karenge, chaprasiyon ki posting hum karenge. Toh basically yeh poori ki poori hamari Sarkar ko, hum nahin manne wale inki baat.
NDTV: Where does this leave the bureaucrats? Isliye pooch rahi hoon because there were reports of a lockout of Aunindo Majumdar, one of the bureaucrats, jiske upar yeh jhagda chala tha. Should a bureaucrat's office be locked? Aap mujhe batao, yeh jo lockout hua tha, aapki chahe jitni bhi arguments valid ho, ek tareeka hota hai protest karne ka ya assert karne ka. Yeh lockout, wasn't it very unfortunate? Log kahenge wahi anarchy ki streak Arvind Kejriwal mein vapis aa gayi.
Arvind Kejriwal: Agar voh hamari isko, apne kuch chand, large amount of bureaucracy is doing a good job in Delhi, peheli cheez toh mein yeh kehene ki koshish kar raha hoon. Aap logon ne, kuch logon ne, galat, galat story chalayi thi, 42 IAS afsaron ne chhutti ke liye apply kiya. Toh Manish Sisodia ne tweet kiya maine to apne office se pooch liya, ek bhi chhutti ki application nahi ayi, Aap TV channel wale jo jo, ho sakta hai ki IAS afsaron ne TV channelon mein apply kiya ho, woh TV channel ki application ki copy humein bhejde hum unko sabko chhutti de denge.
NDTV: Theek hai, why did your party lock this Mr Majumdar's office?
Arvind Kejriwal: I'm coming to this, Kuch TV channelon ne chalaya ki 40 afsaron ne transfer ke liye apply kiya, toh hamare paas ek application nahi aayi? Mein aaj aapke channel ke zariye kehena chahata hoon ki koi bhi afsar Dilli ke bahar transfer chahata hai, mere paas aa jaye 24 ghante mein hum surrender kar denge, hum kisi bhi dukhi aatma ku dilli mein nahi rakhna chahte. Koi dukhi hai, aa jaye, mere paas aa jaye, hum usko turant Dilli ke bahar, hum Home Ministry ko surrender kar denge unko. Jahan tak uss din ka sawal hai, hum ugliness nahi hone dena chahte the, a transfer order was passed, he was being threatened, he was being asked by the L-G's office to do certain things which were illegal. Uska transfer order kiya gaya tha, hum yeh ugliness nahi chahte the ki woh aaye, woh vahan pe baithe phir unko hataya jaye, someone else was transferred in his post...
NDTV: Put in his position, yes.
Arvind Kejriwal: Put in his position, so it was done for a day, ek din ke liye kiya gaya tha.
NDTV: Could you have done it in a different way?
Arvind Kejriwal: Aap suggest kar dijiye kya karna chaiye tha,aage se agar aisi situation...
NDTV: Mein toh sarkar nahi chalati toh I can't be the one offering suggestions, but the lockout seems a bit extreme.
Arvind Kejriwal: Nahi, nahi aisa hota hai,sarkaar mein bohot hota hai.
NDTV: Lockout hota hai? Yeh baaki sarkaren bhi karti hai ki bureaucrat daftaron ko lock, chaabi laga ke chale gaye?
Arvind Kejriwal: Haan bohot baar hota hai, pehli baar nahi hua, bohot baar hota hai, mein toh sarkar mein bohot bar kaam, bohot kaam kar...
NDTV: Do you regret doing it like that?
Arvind Kejriwal: No I don't regret, they should regret creating a position like this, why should I regret? Woh, unko sharam aati hai thori bohot? Yeh joh Dilli ke logon ko...
NDTV: Unko kaun hai? Yeh kiski baat kar rahe hai aap?
Arvind Kejriwal: Yeh BJP walon ko, yeh Dilli ke logon se jis kism ka badla le rahe hai, unko sharam aati hai thori bohot? Accha aur, ek aur cheez hai, L-G saab ka har action, daily basis pe jis-jis tarah ki rajneeti kar rahe hai L-G sahab, daily basis par Modi sahab ko expose kar raha hai, poori Dilli...
NDTV: How do you draw the link?
Arvind Kejriwal: Mein keh toh raha hoon, bahar ja ke pooch lo janta se, janta ke rahi hai ji Modi ji kara rahe hai, L-G sahab ki himmat thori hai jo iss kism ka kaam karenge.
NDTV: But the fight you picked, Arvind, was over a ten day temporary appointment of an acting Chief Secrtary, aur unka naam, Shakuntla Gamlin ka naam Manish ki apni chitthi mein tha as one of the options, you expressed an option preference for another officer. But she was on your Deputy Chief Minister's letter. Ab mein aap se poochna chah rahi hoon aur Dilli ke log bhi shayad janna chahenge, what was the big deal of a ten day posting that it needed sucha big ladai? Dus din ki baat thi.
Arvind Kejriwal: Humne apna naam suggest kiya, unhone uss naam ko nahi maana.
NDTV: Unka naam bhi chitthi mein tha, Mrs Gamlin ka naam bhi chitthi meni tha, Parimal Rai ki preference express ki gayi lekin do naam toh the chitthi mein, Manish ki chitthi mein.
Arvind Kejriwal: Seniority wise then seniority mein pehele number pe yeh, doosre number pe yeh, pehele number pe woh, aur bhi kayin saare naam the, let's not get into the details of that because I think...
NDTV: Big picture, why is a ten day posting important?
Arvind Kejriwal: Big picture is, Dilli sarkar ke paas apne adhikariyon ki transfer posting karne ka, work allocation karne ka adhikar HAI. Janta ne mandate Aam Aadmi Party ki sarkar ko diya hai, L-G saab ko nahi diya, Narendra Modi ji ko nahi diya, Amit Shah ko nahi diya, Aam Aadmi Party ko diya hai, apni defeat ko sweekar karein, Aam Aadmi Party ki sarkar ko apna kaam karne de. Hum Gamlin ji ko post karenge, ki hum Parimal Rai ko post karenge, ki hum abc ko post karenge, ki hum Barkha Dutt ko post karenge, zyeh hamara prerogative hai. Hum decide karenge, sarkar humein chalani hai, janta ko vaade hum logon ne kiye hai. Agar Dilli mein paani nahi milega to janta mere se aake poochegi, Narendra Modi ji se jaake nahi poochegi ki humare ilaake mein paani nahi aa raha, Pradhan Mantri ji humein paani dilwaiye. Toh sarkar toh hum chalayenge ji.
NDTV: One of the other areas of conflict, jaha pe aapki Dilli police ke saath takkar hui was the very, very tragic suicide of Gajendra Singh at an Aam Aadmi Party rally. Aap usme apni galti maan chuke hain, aapne kaha ki I should have stopped the rally. Lekin police ka FIR dekhiye toh who to aapki party ke logo ko kehte hain ki unhone hi usko provoke kiya.
Arvind Kejriwal: Main toh keh hi raha hun, L-G ke zariye aur police ke zariye yeh hamare ko corner karne ki koshish, L-G ke zariye toh Sarkar ko roz rokne ki koshish kar rahe hain hamare kaamo mein archan adane ki koshish kar rahe hain, ESMA nahi lagate, ab dhamki de rahe hain aaj kal. Officers ki tankha rok denge, Officers ki tankha rok denge. Arre officers ki tankha tum kaha se rok doge, tum kaun hon Officers ki, Home Ministry kab see officer ki tankha rok sakti hain? Hum, officers ko tankha...
NDTV: Wo kehte hain service rules have not been followed.
Arvind Kejriwal: What do you mean service rules have not been followed?
NDTV: Because his consent has not been taken.
Arvind Kejriwal: Let Home Ministry go to the court. Home Ministry hamari headmaster hain kya? L-G hamare headmaster hain kya? Hum bacche hain kya? Unke class mein padte hain kya?
NDTV: Aapne Gajendra ji par mera sawaal ka jawab nahi...
Arvind Kejriwal: Main aa raha hun, main Gajendra par bhi aa raha hun. Main yeh kehna chahta hun, agar unko dikaat hain, L-G sahib ko, Narendra Modi ji ko, Home Ministry ko agar dikaat hain toh court chale jayee. Yeh roz, roz notifications se Sarkare chalti hain kya? Woh kehte hain hum tumko tankha nahi denge, kaun hain woh tankha, tankha Assembly deti hain, tankha Dilli ki janta deti hain. Narendra Modi ji yeh soch le, Narendra Modi ji ki bhi tankha Dilli ki janta deti hain. L-G ki bhi tankha Dilli ki janta deti hain, wo kaunsi garoor mein ji rahe hain ki tankha nahi denge? Narendra Modi ji samajh le, main Rahul Gandhi nahi hun.
NDTV: What do you mean by that?
Arvind Kejriwal : Dilli ki janta....
NDTV: What do you mean by that, ki main Rahul Gandhi nahi hun?
Arvind Kejriwal: Woh samajh gayi.....
NDTV: Rahul Gandhi ji toh bade re-energize hoke chutti se wapas aaye hain, aapko nahi mile? Aapko mile kya kahi Rahul Gandhi?
Arvind Kejriwal : Dilli ki janta samajh gayi hain. Desh ki janta samajh gayi hain, poore desh ke andar log dekh rahe hain, aur poore desh ke andar log dekh rahe hain ki kis kisam se Dilli ki Sarkar se daari hui hain BJP.
NDTV: Talk for two minutes about that tragic loss of life. Theek hain aapne apna point kiya...
Arvind Kejriwal: Main yeh kehna chahta hun, accha aapko nahi lagta Media ne gadbad kiya?
NDTV: Nahi media ne kya kiya?
Arvind Kejriwal: Media ne kaha Manish Sisodia ne hatya kar li. Poora din chalaya.
NDTV: Hamare channel ne aisa nahi kiya.
Arvind Kejriwal: Isiliye aapke channel ko interview de raha hun na main. Manish Sisodia murderer hain, Manish Sisodia hatyaara hain, theek hain yeh? Galat hain na? Aise toh nahi karna chahiye. Iss kisaam se toh kisi ki reputation ke saath nahi khelna chahiye. Ab uska parivar, hum uske parivar ke samparg mein hain, uska parivar hamare saath hain, Gajendra ji ka parivar, it was a tragic incident. Usko kisne uchala? Media ne uchala, police ne uchala.
NDTV: Why did you, I want to understand from you, why did you not stop the rally? Why did you not, aapke dimaag mein kya tha ki aapne ek dum who rally nahi end ki? Because humanity has to come before politics.
Arvind Kejriwal: Do cheeze hain, do cheeze main bol chuka hun. Aapne woh dekha hoga...
NDTV: Nahi aapne kaha ki aapne galti ki, main samjhna chahti hun ki yeh galti aapne kyu ki?
Arvind Kejriwal: Usme bhi maine kaha tha, pehli cheez toh jaha hum khade the, jaha hum baithe the, stage pe, waha se woh ped ke peeche dikhayi nahi de rahe the, Gajendra Ji dikhayi nahi de rahe the. So we just didn't know ki ho kya raha hain, chal kya raha hain uske peeche. Kuch ek-aad volunteers ne aake bola, but hum agar waha se announce kar dete, and it was packed, agar hum waha se announce kar dete ki waha pe aisa aisa kuch, because confirm nahi ho raha tha kuch bhi, toh waha pe bhag-daud mach jaati. Uske baad waha pe unki body neeche giri. Hamare paas do option the. Ek option toh yeh tha ki agar turant waha pe band kar dete, toh fir bhag-daud machti. Meri ek ghante ki speech thi, jisko maine kaat ke paanch-dus minute ka kiya, aur uske baad hum turant waha pe, hospital mein chale gaye. Lekin ab yeh lag raha hain, ki who bhi nahi karna chahiye tha. So in the hindsight, uss time exact, immediately matlab, do dimaag ke andar options chal rahe the, ek toh turant band kar do, while mere bagal mein...
NDTV: Because it can come across as callous and unfeeling, yeh aap manenge?
Arvind Kejriwal: No I don't think so.
NDTV: Aisa lagta hain ki politics apni politics kar rahe hain aur ek aadmi, waha pe bechara, you know, suicide, you also must have felt it was terrible which is why you apologized.
Arvind Kejriwal: Obviously. I just couldn't sleep that night. Maine toh bola hain, ki hamhe rok dena chahiye tha aur baad mein humhe laga ki kaafi, woh hua.
NDTV: Isme responsibility aap kaha rakhte hain, who was responsible for what happened to Gajendra? Is moral responsibility partly that of the Aam Aadmi Party, kiski responsibility hain?
Arvind Kejriwal: Hamari kaha se ho gayi?
NDTV: Moral, main legal responsibility ki nahi baat kar rahi.
Arvind Kejriwal: Moral bhi kaise ho gayi, batao?
NDTV: Toh kiski hain?
Arvind Kejriwal : Unki, are you trying to say ki unki suicide mein moral responsibility...
NDTV: Nahi nahi, main yeh bol rahi hun, a man died, maybe his life could have been saved, maybe the journalists could have helped, maybe the police could have helped, maybe the Aam Aadmi Party could have helped. Bohut...
Arvind Kejriwal: So the circumstances, patrakaar bhi toh wahi maujood the...
NDTV: Maine kaha na, maybe the journalist could have helped, maine toh pehle hi bola tha.
Arvind Kejriwal: It was extremely unfortunate, ab kya hua, kaise hua, woh toh jaanch ke baad hi pata chalega.
NDTV: So when you look back at that moment, aap uske baad you went and honoured him, aapne unke family ke saath bhi stage share kiya, would you count that as in a sense your biggest regret so far in these hundred days, what happened to Gajendra?
Arvind Kejriwal: Ho sakta hain, ho sakta hain. Ki uss din I think we could have acted differently.
NDTV: Accha aapne media ki bohut, many references have come up to the media. Arvind, before you were Chief Minister, one of the things that you used to say openly on any television programme I've done with you, is you're the one politician who doesn't flinch from taking any question.
Arvind Kejriwal: Aaj bhi interview ke pehle maine yeh nahi bola, yeh mat poonchna...
NDTV: Bilkul nahi pooncha, aur yeh live jaa raha hain, so there is no censorship, no pre-censorship absolutely. Lekin yeh kaise ho gaya that your government issued a circular that whatever defames the image of the government in the media should be served with defamation proceedings, aur yeh sabse ajeeb baat isme mujhe lagi ki jo Supreme Court ne bhi uthayi, that on the other hand, you, Rahul Gandhi and Subramanian Swamy, matlab this is such a strange combination of people, or interesting combination of people, are challenging criminal defamation in the Supreme Court. Ek taraf woh Arvind Kejriwal hain, ek tarak aapki Sarkar aise circulars nikal rahi hain.
Arvind Kejriwal: Pehle aap yeh samajhne ki koshish kijiye, main Sarkar nahi hun. Sarkar bohut saare hain, neeche se processes chalte hain, bohut saare cheeze hote hain, I am not government. Arvind Kejriwal is not government, there is a Delhi government. Woh dilli Sarkar ka circular hain, Kejriwal ka circular nahi hain, number one.
NDTV: Fir kiska faisla tha, woh, bataye mujhe?
Arvind Kejriwal: Suno toh sahi. Woh kaafi layers hain. Agar aap us circular ko padho, humne usme yeh nahi kaha ki koi naye kisam ka defamation hum shuru kar rahe hain. Defamation hain, kanoon ke andar hain, usme teen obstacles humne create kiye, ki usko misuse na ho sake. Because these things were coming from many quarters, in fact many officers, many ministers, all of them were saying, woh sab log bol rahe the ki jis kisam se main aapko kahi saare stories dikha sakta hun. Kis tarah se jhoot propogate kiya ja raha tha. Toh humne yeh soch ke ki kabhi iska koi minister ya koi officer galat istamaal na kar le, defamation ka, humne kaha, agar koi bhi karna chahta hain, usko pehle Principal Secretary Home ko application likhni chahiye. Principal Secretary Home usko prosecution department se vet karvaega. Usko vet karwane ke baad Principal Secretary Home usko Law Department se vet karvaega. Fir Principal Secretary Home khud usko examine karega. Aur teen examination ke baad woh Prosecution department mein jaega case file hone ke liye. Toh we created actually procedure, ki kahi defamation ko koi bhi officer ya koi bhi minister usko misuse, humne toh...
NDTV: So you're saying the circular was to stop the misuse of defamation?
Arvind Kejriwal: Of course.
NDTV: Not to aggressively pursue defamation cases against journalists?
Arvind Kejriwal: Obviously not. Agar aisa hota toh hum toh usme kehta ki bhai jo bhi aaye, aao aur file karwa lo.
NDTV: Par aapne public trials ki baat ki for journalists.
Arvind Kejriwal: Public trial nahi kaha tha, woh ek woh tha...
NDTV: Launch for website shayad tha, haan.
Arvind Kejriwal: Haan, jisme kisi ne kaha ki janta ke sawal, janta ke bhi trial, janta ke beech mein bhi media ko jawaab dena chahiye, maine kaha haan, aap log kijiye, Media ko aana chahiye. Jaise aap hain, aap jaise mera interview kar rahe hain. Main prashno se nahi ghabrata, aise Barkha bhi toh prashno se nahi ghabrati.
NDTV: Nahi, main toh nahi ghabrati.
Arvind Kejriwal: Toh woh agar koi janta...
NDTV: Media should also be accountable, main yeh bilkul disagree nahi karti. Lekin ek bada unhealthy sa environment...
Arvind Kejriwal: Barkha main ek cheez kehna chahta hun. Media se hamari dushmani nahi hain. Media se hamare ko kyu dushmani hogi, media is a mode of communication jo ki aapki baat ko sab logo tak le jaata hain. Hume toh aapki zaroorat hain. Hum aapke bina kaise reh sakte hain, hum Sarkar bhi, agar aaj accha kaam kar rahi hain, toh hume aapki zaroorat hain janta tak usko pahunchane ki. Lekin, jab jhoot bola jaata hain, toh bohut takleef hoti hain.
NDTV: Jab jhoot hota hain toh normal defamation laws are already there, the laws of the land are there, jinko aap challenge kar rahe hain Supreme Court mein balki. Criminal defamation ko.
Arvind Kejriwal: Toh dono cheeze pe baat karte hain. Main aapko ek story sunata hun, ek akhbar ne story chaapi, ki Delhi stares at dark summers. Front page, full page story. Ki Dilli ke andar, garmiyo ke andar bijli gul hone wali hain. Usm meri photo chaapi hain aur meri taraf se likha, hume NTPC ki bijli ki zaroorat nahi hain. NTPC ki Chairman ki photo chappi hain aur NTPC ke Chairman ke taraf se likha, ki agar dilli Sarkar ko bijli ki zaroorat nahi hain hum kisi aur ko bech denge. Aur fir uske andar likha ki kejriwal aur NTPC ki Chariman mein ladaiye ho gayi hain. Main kabhi mila nahi NTPC ke Chairman se, toh turant Power Minister ne hamare phone kiya NTPC ke Chairman ko, unse pooncha. He was so nice, he says "Sir maine toh kabhi bola hi nahi kisi, we have excellent relations with Delhi government." Fir NTPC ke Chairman ne bohut baddi chitthi likhi, uss akbhar ke Editor ko, ki aap mere aur Dilli Sarkar ke beech mein kyu yeh mat-bhed paida kar rahe hain, I have never said anything like that. Unhone chithi bhi nahi chaapi. Toh poori ki poori woh motivated story thi, ek impression create karne ke liye, ek poore Delhi ke andar mahaul paida karne ke liye, ki Dilli mein bijli gul hone wali hain, Dilli mein bijli gul hone wali hain, aur Kejriwal uske liye responsible hain. Yeh to galat hain na? Abhi kisi media ne kaha 42 officers ne chutti ke liye apply kiya. Humne kaha ji ek hi chitti ki copy de do. Toh kya mahaul yeh create kiya ja raha hain sarkari ke khilaf, ki bhai officer inko chorh kar ja rahe hain. Aaj 100 din ke andar hamare jo achievement hain, yeh meri wajah se nahi hain. Yeh un officers ke wajah se hain. We have an excellent set of officers who are working day and night to make...
NDTV: But you are also facing defamation proceedings in the court, aapko bhi, you challenging criminal defamation. How do you reconcile this contradiction? Yeh contradiction hain ki ek taraf aap kehte hain ki, that which is not backed by evidence can be challenged on the grounds of defamation. Woh aapke baare mein bhi log kahenge, aapne kitne hi logo ko corrupt bola, shayad aapke har bar evidence...
Arvind Kejriwal: Isiliye toh maine yeh wala case koi hum defamation mein toh leke nahi gaye. Main aap se jaana chahta hun iska kya sampradan hain. Mujhe nahi samajh aa raha.
NDTV: Main aapse ek counter question poonchna chahti hun
Arvind Kejriwal: Pehle mere counter question ka jawaab do
NDTV: No I'm saying jaha defamation, the existing laws are enough, yeh circular kyu?
Arvind Kejriwal: Circular toh maine bata diya, circular ki story khatam ho gayi.
NDTV: You're saying it was to stop the misuse?
Arvind Kejriwal: It was basically to stop the misuse. Aur defamation karke dekh lo, 20 saal bhi defamation chalte rehta hain, usko kuch hota toh nahi, defamation ka. Aaj agar kisi ne jhooti story chaapi ki aane wale garmiyo ke dino mein aapki bijli gul hone wali hain, aur saari galat story hain, mujhe yeh bata do main kaha jaaon. Where is my, main kiske paas jakar...
NDTV: But there are fair journalists, there are people who do their job, there is social media, there is your own forms of communication. Sab ek jaise nahi hote.
Arvind Kejriwal: Main keh toh raha hun, media se humari koi dushmani nahi hain, media mein bohut saare log bohut acche hain. Main keh toh raha hun.
NDTV: Par aap ek journalist ke life ke baare mein sochiye, jaha ek taraf General VK Singh kehte hain Presstitute, doosri taraf aap supari journalist ke baare mein baat karte hain.
Arvind Kejriwal: Supari journalist maine nahi bola tha, aap hi ke saathi ne bola tha.
NDTV: Chaliye, maan liya. But the environment is such that an honest journalist will feel attacked by politicians of all sides. Please understand, your party is filled with so many former journalists, wo toh aapko kehte honge what our life is like?
Arvind Kejriwal: We respect all honest journalists, we respect honest journalism and we want to encourage it.
NDTV: Okay, I want you to speak about something you've never spoken about. Aapke fellow travellers they, Prashant Bhushan and Yogendra Yadav. Ab woh aapke saath nahi hain. Yogendra Yadav ne kaha ki unka sacking was like a Stalinist purge, unhone kaha Arvind Swaraj ki baat karte the ab One man Raj hain. Prashant Bhushan ke kaha aap Congress ke saath milna chahte the, you're a dictator. Do you regret losing two men who are widely respected in civil society?
Arvind Kejriwal: Jo kuch bhi hua, who hona nahi chahiye tha. Par ab that is past. Ab aage badna hai...
NDTV: Kiski galti thi? Kiski galti thi?
Arvind Kejriwal: Kisi ki bhi galti thi, kisi ki bhi galti nahi thi, usme padhne se koi fayeda nahi hain hain, that is not important.
NDTV: But why do you not talk? Yeh ek issue hain jispe aap kabhi khul ke baat nahi karte, that is out of character for you. Aapne kaha jo sawal poonchna hain poonchiye. Maine pooncha. Ab thoda sa...
Arvind Kejriwal: Maine apna jawab de diya.
NDTV: Nahi, appne kaha jo kuch hua hua woh jawab nahi hain, that is not an answer.
Arvind Kejriwal: Appko bhi aadat daalni chahiye ki saamne wala jo jawab de usko accept karna chahiye, because who toh janta dekh rahi hain.
NDTV: Lekin thoda to bataye, how did it come to this situation?
Arvind Kejriwal: Janta ne hume vote is ladai-jhagde ke liye nahi diya tha. Janta ne vote kaam ke liye diya tha, janta hamare kaam se bohut khush hain aur abhi janta ke andar jaise main jaata hun. Ek yeh mahaul create karne ki khoob ladai chal rahi hain, L-G ke saath ladai chal rahi hain, isse ladai chal rahi hain, use ladai chal rahi hain. Khoob ladai, aur kuch media wale keh rahe hain ki governance nahi ho rahi, ladai chal rahi hain...
NDTV: BJP wale bhi keh rahe hain, this is a diversionary tactic to deflect from governance issues.
Arvind Kejriwal: Main yeh kehna chah raha hun, ki mere baap dada ki jaydaad bat rahi hain kya, ki koi L-G ke saath jaydaad ka batwara ho raha ho, ki mereko yeh property milne waali hain aur apni property ke liye lad raha hun main? Aapke liye lad raha hun, aapke haako ke liye lad raha hun. Agar transfer posting ki Dilli ke andar industry chalti thi croro rupaiy ki, humne usko band karwaya hain, ek transfer posting mein aaj paise nahi lagte. Jo croro rupaye mein transfer bika karte the Dilli mein, Ab agar yeh saari transfer posting ki industry apne haq mein lena chah rahe hain,mein ladun ya na ladun inse? Agar anti-corruption hum kisi police wale ko pakadte hai aur chitthi likhte hai yeh, ki iss police wale ka case aap transfer kar dijiye, main uske liye ladun ya na ladun?
NDTV: Was it personally difficult for you to lose two of your fellow travellers?
Arvind Kejriwal: Obviously, agar saath rehte toh accha tha,aap bhi badi ziddi hain.
NDTV: Woh toh kehte hai ki aapne nikala unko. Accha chalo, lets pick up a big principle that they have raised, jo baki log bhi uthate hai, 'Arvind Kejriwal is a one man party'. Narednra Modi ke bare mein Congress kehti hai 'One man party', ab aapke hi critics aapke bare mein kehete hai Aam Aadmi Party has become 'Arvind's Party'. How do you respond to this charge of being autocratic, dictatorial, a one man party?
Arvind Kejriwal: Yeh sab bakwaas hai.
NDTV: Nahi,"Yeh sab bakwaas hai" is not an answer. Again, why are you being seen...
Arvind Kejriwal: ...What is the answer?
NDTV: There is a line between being a firm leader and being a dictator. Are people allowed to disagree with Arvind in party forums?
Arvind Kejriwal: Obviously, not just this thing, officers roz disagree karte hai, hum aapas mein charcha karte hai, charcha karke nirnay lete hai, aise nahi chalta. Sab log aapas mein nirnay lete hai lekin phir ultimately nirnay leneka adhikar kisi ek ka hota hai, otherwise toh kaam chalega nahi na? Jaise aapke yahan bhi hota hai, aap editorial meeting lete ho, toh sablog bolte hai, yeh bhi kuch bolta hai, yeh bhi kuch bolta hai, yeh bhi kuch phir ultimately nirnay toh Barkha Dutt leti hai na? Nahi toh TV channel kaise chalega, phir saare hi chalayenge apni apni. Toh nirnay toh bhayi, jab tak National Convener mein hoon,tab tak sabki sunni hai, phir nirnay ek aadmi leta hai. Jis din mei National Convener chhor doonga us din, jab tak Mukhya Mantri tab tak sabhi afsaron ki sunenge sab karenge, lekin nirnay toh phir mujhe lena padega.
NDTV: Accha, aapne baat ki of political insecurity of the BJP led by Narendra Modi. After you became Chief Minister, aapki do-teen mulakate hui with the Prime Minister. Ek police ke at home par, you went and met him in Race Course Road. So at a personal level how would you describe your equation with the Prime Minister? Because I'll tell you why I ask. I asked Rajiv Bajaj, hai aapke bade supporter hai, unhone ek-aad bada interesting interview diya Economic Times ko, unhone kaha "India needs a Prime Minister like Modi and a Chief Minister like Kejriwal". Mujhe toh dono hi bohot pasand hai, so this is quite interesting because even a lot of your supporters in Delhi may have voted for Narendra Modi as PM and you as CM so I'm interested to know whether you agree with this, India needs a PM like Modi and a CM like Kejriwal? Rajiv Bajaj ne bola hai.
Arvind Kejriwal: Mein bas yeh kehena chahata hoon ki Dilli ki janta ne humko vote diya, desh ki janta ne Narendra Modi ji ko vote diya, hum keh rahe hai aap desh chalaiye na, Dilli toh humko chalane dijiye, Dilli mein to roz L-G ke zariye humari aisi taisi mat kijiye. Dilli ki janta ne humko vote diya humko Dilli chalane dijiye. Roz ek notification, roz ek love letter, roz ek kuch na kuch kuch na kuch, kuch na kuch...
NDTV: How have your meetings been with the Prime Minister?
Arvind Kejriwal: This is not a good Prime Minister, yeh theek nahi hai, bhayi haar gaye, Dilli har gaye toh badla lenge hum. Aam Aadmi Party se bh badla lenge aur Dilli ki janta se bhi badla lenge, yeh theek nahi hai.
NDTV: Aap President se bhi mile,you took your issues to the President, what is the impression you get? Because ek kanoon mein yeh bhi baat hai,that if there is a disagreement between the Lieutenant Governor and the Chief Minister, wo baat President ko jaati hai and pending that, unki vakil kehti hai that the Lieutenant Governor can take a decision.
Arvind Kejriwal: So pending that unhone liye kya? Unhone Rashtrapati ko bheja kya L-G saab ne? Nahi bheja, toh L-G saab, BJP yeh keh rahi hai, L-G saab keh rahe hai ki hum na toh samvidhan mein likha hai ki agar Mukhya Mantri aur L-G ke beech mein kisi baat pe matbedh hoga toh L-G saab uss matter ko Rashtriyapati refer kare, toh kariye refer. Aap uske baad humein nirdesh dijiye hum follow karenge. Pehele usmein likha hai ki pehele L-G sahab agar matbedh hoga to pehele mantra ko bulakar baatcheet karenge. Doosra step hai baatcheet se bhi baat nahi suljhegi toh Council of Ministers ko matter refer karenge. Usse bhi baat nahi suljhegi toh Rashtriyapati ko matter refer karenge and in the intervening period he can, Wo na toh bula kar baatcheet karte hai, phone nahi uthate, na woh Council of Ministers ko matter refer karte hai, na woh Rashtriyapati, woh toh Danda chalate hai. Headmaster bane hue hai, tumne yeh galat kar diy, tumne woh galat kar diya, aaj tumne lal shirt kyun pehni? Mere se pooch ke. Ek joke chal raha hai aaj kal internet pe, ek ladka kehta haimain shaadi kar raha hoon, meri girlfriend maan gayi hai shade karne ke liye. Toh doosra poochta hai parents se permission le li? Kehta hai, parents se toh permission le li bas L-G ki permission ke liye apply kiya hua hai. Woh, ek din khade ho kar kehte hai ki saare offices mere control mein aate hai, press release jaari kar, doosre din press release jaari karte hain, saare ACB mere under mein aate hai. Toh wo Manish ne ek din bola ki kal aane wala hai ki White House mere under aata hai, Barak Obama mere under mein aata hai, He's made a fun of...
NDTV: But why can't you and the Lieutenant Governor...
Arvind Kejriwal: Poore L-G ke institution ka unhone mazak uda diya hai.
NDTV: But why can't the two of you sit like grown men at a table and discuss this between yourselves, rather than fighting in public and in the Court?
Arvind Kejriwal: Agar toh yeh mere aur L-G sahab ke beech ki hoti toh woh abhi tak samadhan ho gaya hota. Unko upar se phone aye hue hai ki inki aisi tesi karni hai. When we meet I've told you we hug each other actually. Aap wahan pe L-G house ke officers se pooch lijiye, we have very cordial relations with each other. Maine toh chitthi bhi likhi thi Pradhan Mantri ji ko abhi thore din pehele.
NDTV: Have you got a reply?
Arvind Kejriwal: Koi reply toh dete hi nahi woh. Usmein bhi maine likha tha ki humare L-G sahab se rishte bohot acche hai, Pradhan Mantri ji hum aapse bhi acche rishte chahte hai. Maine aakhri paragraph mein yeh likha tha Pradhan Mantri ko ki L-G sahab se hamare rishte bohot acche hai, aapse bhi, ab woh L-G sahab bhi bechare kya karein? Aaj agar who mere favour mein kuch kar dein, kal unko hata denge. Ab unko apni kursi bhi toh bachani hai bechare L-G ko.
NDTV: Par aapne kaha part of it is the fear ki kahin Aam Aadmi Party, baaki states mein bhi iss tarah ki performance na dikha de. Do you see yourself now looking nationally? And I ask you this kyunki jab Manish ko Deputy Chief Minister banaya gaya tha one of the impressions was it's to free you to focus on the political expansion of the Aam Aadmi Party. Is that something that is on your plate now, the political expansion beyond Delhi of the Aam Aadmi Party?
Arvind Kejriwal: Filhaal toh Dilli walon ko acchi governance dena hamara mudda hai. Lekin samay samay pe party decide karegi, Kejriwal will not decide, the party will decide.
NDTV: But what is your own reading?
Arvind Kejriwal: Dekhte hai, aane wale samay mein, abhi kuch decide nahi kiya hai.
NDTV: But ek political pattern mujhe nazar aa raha hai. Political pattern yeh hai that Mamta Banerjee went on Twitter in your favour, she spoke about strengthening the federal structure, Nitish Kumar aapko ke rahe hai, "why shouldn't I help Arvind Kejriwal if he needs my people?". Aapne Naveen Patnaik ko bhi chitthi likh. Isko agar hum closely dekhen you are reaching out to non-Congress, non-BJP state leaders, is this the beginning of a new front? Is Arvind Kejriwal hunting for future allies?
Arvind Kejriwal: Aap log bada reading between the lines karte ho, aisa kuch bhi nahi hai.
NDTV: Yeh dekhiye, aap apne choice of Chief Ministers dekh lijiye, aap bataiye iska kya counter hai?
Arvind Kejriwal: Aisa kuch bhi nahi hai, and Nitish Kumar ji ne humko apne officers bhejen hai, we are very grateful to him.
NDTV: Is there any political back channels in the works?
Arvind Kejriwal: There are no political back channels.
NDTV: What about the Congress? Congress ki toh aapne baat hi nahi ki.
Arvind Kejriwal: Congress BJP wale toh mil ke hi saare...
NDTV: No, but if you see Rahul Gandhi, you said Mr Modi I'm not like Rahul Gandhi. Ab Rahul Gandhi wapis aaye hain,woh sarkaar ko suit-boot ki sarkar kehte hai, doosri taraf woh farmers ko outreach kar rahe hain. Is the Congress a party that the Aam Aadmi Party can work with going forward? Congress ke kayi leaders have taken your side, for example, in this dispute.
Arvind Kejriwal: Hum in saari baatonke bare mein sochte hi nahi hai, hum Dilli ki governance...
NDTV: You're a politician, you must be thinking about these things?
Arvind Kejriwal: Dilli ki governance hamare liye important hai, aur aane wale samay mein jab doosre rajyon mein chunaav honge tab party baith ke decide karegi ki uski kya strategy hai, abhi humne decide nahi kiya.
NDTV: But when you said, "I am not Rahul Gandhi", what did you mean?
Arvind Kejriwal: I think jis jisko message pohochna tha pohoch gaya, that's it.
NDTV: You don't see Rahul Gandhi, Rahul Gandhi ke baare mein kayi baari kehte the ki Rahul Gandhi wanted to be Arvind Kejriwal but he waited too long.
Arvind Kejriwal: Nahi...
NDTV: Nahi, kehte the...
NDTV: But do you see yourself working with the Congress Chief Ministers as well, jis tarah se aapne cooperation maangi ha ya help maangi hai from Nitish Kumar?
Arvind Kejriwal: Nahi, do cheezein, jis tarah se Dilli ke andar Lieutenant Governor ke through Dilli ki sarkar ko destabilize karne ki koshish ki ja rahi hai, yeh Dilli ka ek experiment kar rahi hai BJP. Aur yeh experiment doosre rajyon mein implement hone wala hi. Jis tarah se large scale se Governors ko badla gaya, kyon badla gaya Governors ko? Wo aise Governors chahte hai jiske zariye who uss rajya ke sarkar ko destabilize kar sake. Dilli ka experiment ye karna chah rahe hai, Dilli ke Lieutenant Gaovernor ko kyon nahi badla? Yeh toh Congress ke the, Congress ke aadmi the, achanak BJP ko inse pyar kaise ho gaya? Toh basically yeh kaam kar rahe hai, out of the way jaa ke kaam kar rahe hai, sab kuch kar rahe hai jo BJP keh rahi hai toh kyon badlenge? Ab agar Dilli ke andar jaise, Dilli ke andar toh humne sambhal liya, Dilli ke andar toh humne sambhal liya. Inko humne rok rakha hai, jaise maine kahan mein shield bana hua hoon inko janta tak nahi pohochne de raha. Dusre rajyon ke Mukhya Mantriyon ko bhi sochna padega, ki agar is waqt sabne aawaz nahi uthayi to inka bhi number aane wala hai.
NDTV: But they have full statedhood, you do not. Yeh ek difference hai.
Arvind Kejriwal: Full statehood ho ya half statehood, aapne Romesh Bhandari ki bhi kahaniya suni hui hai.
NDTV: UP mein..
Arvind Kejriwal: UP mein suni hui hai, is tarah ke bohot saare incidents hue hain, toh itihaas janta hai ki jab iss kisam ki dictatorial attitude wali sarkar kendriya ke andar aati hai toh woh Governor ke institution ka kis tarah se misuse karti hai. Yeh desh kaafi dekh chuka hai.
NDTV: In the end I want to ask you to talk about an issue that really the world is talking about, the air pollution in Delhi. Arvind, somebody like you should have made this a top billing issue.
Arvind Kejriwal: Yeh hamari top priority hai, I'm very happy that you spoke about it.
NDTV: And you live in a zone where it is actually even higher than the average. Aapki Chief Minister ki khud ki surroundings are more polluted than the rest of the capital.
Arvind Kejeiwal: I agree with that. Ismein dekhiye sabse bada kaaran jo hai wo hai vehicular pollution. Aur vehicular pollution tab kum hoga jab hum public transport ko bohot zabardast tareeke se strengthen karenge. Jab gadiyan kam hongi DIlli ki sadkon ke upar traffic bhi use control hoga aur public transport bhi. Aaj Dilli mein kewal pichle 65 saal mein kewal 7,000 busein hai hamare pas DIlli mein. Private or sarkari dono mila ke. Hamara sapna hai, ek saal ke andar, dus hazar busein leke aana.
NDTV: You're saying strengthen public transport so people stop using cars, lekin log nahi karte na. Would you consider a law too? Kayi deshon mein hota hai, somedays no cars on the streets.
Arvind Kejriwal: Let me just come to that. Peheli cheez toh buson ki availability, buson ki frequency aur buson ke andar ka congestion. Aap bhi, agar aapko ek comfortable bus journey, jaise Metro hai, Metro se kyun jaate hai log? Metro se baade ameer log bhi jate hai, travel karte hai, because it's a comfortable journey. Ussi tarah se aap bus ko bhi comfortable bana dijiye, hum jo soch rahe hai, ki kayi kism ki busein leke ayenge. Its not just one or two categories, there will be buses, jo agar aap if your pocket allows, agar aapke paas paise hai toh usmein andar bohot comfortable bhi hoga aur lower end ki bhi busein hongi, jismein thora sa congestion bhi hoga, To chaar ya paanch categories ki busein leke ayenge. Sabse badi adchan aa rahi hai, aaj hamare paas dus hazar busein laney ke liye bus depot nahi hai. Uske liye zameen chaiye. Zameen Centre ke paas hai, DDA ke paas hai, aur yeh galat femi hai logon ko ki zameen humein free mein milti hai. Agar aaj mere ko bus depot banana ke liye DDA se zameen chahiye, DDA humein chaar crore rupaye per acre ke hisaab se paise maang raha hai. 500 acre zameen chayie mujhe dus hazar buson ke liy. Toh do hazar crore rupaye mujhe kewal apni Dilli ki, apne kaam ke liye zameen khareedne ke liye chahiye toh galat hai. Mujhe agar aspatal banane ho toh uske liye char crore rupaye per acre dene padte hai DDA ko. Doosre rajyon mein to aisa nahi hai. Apni zameen hoti hai, hum free mein apni zameen par aspatal kyun nahi bana sakte? Hum free mein apni zameen par bus depot kyon nahi bana sakte? Toh woh humne likha hai. VC DDA ne bada cooperate kiya hai, toh baat karenge hum Urban Development Ministry se, ki jab Dilli sarkar ke public interest ke projects hai, usko to aap free mein zameen dijiye, school ke liye, aspatal ke liye, depot ke liye, waste management plant ke liye, power plant ke liye, iske liye to zaameen humko free mein milni chahiye.
NDTV: You will make air pollution a top priority?
Arvind Kejriwal: Bohot badi priority hai. Hamari Sunita Narain ji ke saath bhi kayi meetings hui hai, abhi ek July se ya ek August se, I don't remember, Dilli ke andar bohot strong Anti Pollution Drive chalane ja rahe hai. Uska poora back end ki tayari ho rahi hai, it should not be just a tamasha, we don't want it to be a tamasha.
NDTV: Okay, on a lighter note, Maggi has been banned and a photograph has gone viral of you eating Maggi, who har jagah, Twitter pe it's trending. This Maggi ban, yeh pandrah din ka jo aapki sarkar ne ban kiya hai, what are you expecting after 15 days? Now Nestle has of course withdrawn all the Maggi. Are you going to miss Maggi like all of us? Is it one of your staple diets?
Arvind Kejriwal: Acchi lagti thi, kabhi kabhi khate bhi the.
NDTV: Lekin, more seriously, yeh jo baat chal rahi hai, processed food labelling, how safe is our food? You were among the first states...
Arvind Kejriwal: Food, pehli cheez to Maggi ka jawab de deta hoon. Maggi ka jawab ki, 15 din islye kiya ki hum yeh nahi chahte the ki koi, yeh irresponsible behavior nahi hona chaiye, so 15 dinke andar we hope ki Maggi apna existing stock hata le, aur naya stock leke aye, aur uske andar yeh lead ka content permissible limits mein hona chaiye, jisko test kar lenge. Agaar test mein theek nikalta hia toh Maggi apna kaam kare, humein koi kisi se dushmani thori hai.
NDTV: Finally Arvind, as we end, are you missing the muffler?
Arvind Kejriwal: Abhi sardiyan ayengi toh the muffler will be back.
NDTV: I mean, garmi mein kaam kaise ho raha hai, matlab the image of Arvind Kejriwal is not complete without the muffler.
Arvind Kejriwal: Aap hi logon ne banayi hai image aisi, jo marzi image bana dete hai.
NDTV: Arvind Kejriwal a pleasure talking to you, we hope you'll do it more often, thank you so much.
Arvind Kejriwal: Thank you