NDTV: Hello and welcome to the NDTV Dialogues, a conversation of ideas. Tonight our big idea is the story of our new hero in Bollywood and to discuss that with me are two outstanding actors. Their new movie is out soon 'Hamari Adhuri Kahani', Vidya Balan and Emraan Hashmi with me in studio. Thanks very much for joining me. Vidya with well 'Tanu Weds Manu Returns', 'Piku', etc, suddenly 100 crores being made about a film, where the script many would say of course actor and actress are integral part but the script is the hero. Would you agree?
Vidya Balan: Oh, absolutely and I think...
NDTV: It's not a worrying thought.
Vidya Balan: No, I think that's a fabulous thing to have happened and I have been seeing this change from the past 5-6 years with the kind of films that I have done. You know, I have tried different kind of films and they have worked, right from 'Ishqikya' and 'No One killed Jessica' to of course then 'The Dirty Picture' and 'Kahani'. So, I really think that today, more than ever, audiences are open and willing and welcoming of different kinds of content.
NDTV: In fact, interestingly, because you have had big star movies you have had 'Bombay Velvet' which was a flop, which people didn't expect, because you had big stars in that, does that open it up for other stars, stars who may not fit he conventional superstar mould?
Emraan Hashmi: Yes, sure, I think definitely. I mean the calling is that content is here to stay and you can't really bulldoze people into the hall, just out, if this marketing push, generally when you see, you put big bucks in marketing and you get a big star and say that okay content might be mediocre, but the audience is going to get really excited and is going to go to the cinema halls to see it. We have realised in the past couple of years, which is also a very interesting trend, that audiences have become so smart they can sense something from the first promo. They get a whiff of it and you know that is gone wrong from the first day when the film opens up. They know that these guys are fooling us, this is not a film, this is a proposal and that's a big difference. And, when you have the team that made the films that you are talking about, great content, they got a whiff of it from the promos and they went and saw the films and of course the film has to stand by. If the film is not good it crashes on a Saturday, but if it is good it goes in for the long haul.
Vidya Balan: Yes, I think the audiences are very astute, they just smell the film, they know which film they want to spend two hours watching in the theater, spending money or whether they will watch it when it comes on television.
NDTV: But, do you find that some times that you know, Bollywood always looks for formulas? Then it tends to be that this also falls in to the formula. You know that Vidya will do a certain kind of movie which is about the script, but she won't do the movie which is a big Khan film or she won't be the co-star with the Big Khan
Vidya Balan: They are not completely wrong about that.
NDTV: Why is that? Because somebody described you once as the fourth Khan.
Vidya Balan: No, it's only because there is not much for me to do in a Khan film. If there is a Khan film, where, you know, I am given a fabulous role at par then I'm more than happy to do it.
NDTV: Why the insecurity then? Why would you not get a role at par, say, in a Khan film or a Kapoor film? I am sure maybe Aamir or somebody would, but why would you not get a role at par?
Vidya Balan: Because they don't write those kind of scripts yet. 'Chennai Express' was one aberration. It was a film where the heroine had almost as much as Shah Rukh did, but otherwise in which Khan film have you really seen an actress have a full-fledged out role, a fully fleshed out role? You know, that is a sort of formula and honestly, I think, you know, everyone else is experimenting a lot more.
NDTV: Emraan, let me ask you the reverse of that question, in the sense do you then get that perhaps say, when the heroine is as strong as Vidya Balan? Do you feel perhaps, how do I make sure my space is safe guarded? Because, there is always, sort of, the traditional patriarchy of Bollywood as well?
Emraan Hashmi: You don't compete with someone you are dancing with...
NDTV: Yes, you do. On many films you see that...
Emraan Hashmi: You feel that in the industry and I think it's also temperament. It is your outlook to life you know. I know there is lot of insecurities, that obviously, you know, that are riding in every industry, but I have seen the film, I see it in totality. I don't kind of fight over dialogues, I know the actors who do that and you want to know what the person next to you is saying. I will give a very good example. I worked with Ajay Devgn on a film, 'Once Upon a Time in Mumbai', and I got a great lesson from him. He is a senior actor and he just let me take scenes when they were meant to be my scenes in the film. He never argued with the director. He just said that it is this boy's scene and he should take it and I think. That's what films should be. It's a story, and everyone has a part to play, and everyone contributes. The problem is when we get into the discussion of one thing being the center of everything. I have never believed that. I have always believed that, you know, it's a team. I have never negated everyone's contribution and I know some people do that, they negate it, I find that extremely foolish. You should take the contribution of the cinematographer, an actor, an actress, supporting cast, a director, sound, but some people don't do that, and I have always had that thinking, because I started off as an assistant director and I think I am thankful to that phase where I saw every unit participating and contributing to a film.
NDTV: But, do you find there is a natural progression? That films that are perhaps, which are as I said, focused on story, which are looking more at every actor as a character and not as a star, are a stepping stone? That ultimately to make it big in Bollywood you do have to be a kind of person who's, just as name ensures a 100-crore opening, because the zeroes kind of keep on adding to that club, is that something you aspire to look to? Would you want to be in a Karan Johar movie?
Emraan Hashmi: No. Obviously there are scripts that, even if Karan pens a film and I love the story, I would do it for those reasons. But, I wouldn't do it just because a director has given a 100 crore film last Friday. I know and a certain humility says that even I can go wrong after giving a 100 crore film. So it's always deciding it on the content, when there is a script narration and you are instinctive enough to sense that this is something that great, there is something that the audience would want to see you, and I don't think every film should be judged with the benchmark of a 100 crore or a 200 crore. For example, see for the Oscars in Hollywood, you have a 'Birdman', which does not rake in so much, but does that mean it's not successful? It's won all the awards. Your benchmark of the success is not only box office. If you weigh the 'Avengers', the 'Avengers' might have done probably 10 times the business, but as far as credibility and respectability, 'Birdman' gets that. So, I think that is something. In our cinema, we are saying that a film might gross 50 crore, but it's something that I will be very proud of and say that this is more to me than a 100-crore film.
Vidya Balan: Also, I think people tend to ignore the fact that you know, the ratio of cost of production to profit is very crucial in determining whether he film has done well, so if it's a 80-crore film...
NDTV: Now, you talk like a CEO's wife, now.
Vidya Balan: Yes, but you know, I have begun to understand these things, because it doesn't matter if you have made 100 crores and your film cost you 60 or 80 crores, it really doesn't matter.
NDTV: How do you manage to retain your essence? How do you manage to remain Vidya Balan in the industry, which often tries to define somebody, put them into slots? As the rat race, you are number 1 today, number 2, number 3, how have you managed to retain that essence, even at a time when people will say, oh, this is a film where your lot rides on, because your last two films haven't been successful? Sometimes it's about Friday to Friday.
Vidya Balan: No, no, not sometimes. You know, it is the business at the end of the day. So it is, a lot depends all on how your film fares on that Friday. But I think that is the business of cinema. For audiences, they still treat you the same you know, so that's very reassuring. Having said that, how do I, I think? I love what I do and I enjoy the fame and the adulation and the applause and all of it. But at the end of the day, I am just a girl who is very passionate about my work and I don't take it all too personally. I don't read you know, any of the newspapers, I don't watch entertainment news.
NDTV: You are not on Twitter?
Vidya Balan: I am not on Twitter, Facebook, none of the sort, so I think all that helps me retain my sanity. And family most importantly, and I think we are similar in that way. We are both quite cut off.
NDTV: I don't read about any bad boy antics from you...
Emraan Hashmi: Only on screen...
NDTV: Exactly, on screen. Let me ask you a question, because there was a sad incident last week where one Telugu actress actually died, apparently out of complications after a liposuction surgery. And I remember thinking in essence how in 'The Dirty Picture', when again Silk Smita died in tragic circumstances, the kind of pressure which happens when you perhaps have seen the success and it goes away for a while, get desperate, recently there is case where one actress, a national award winning actress was actually accused of being in porn industry. How difficult, when you say that I retain my sanity besides personally, what do you think a heroine needs to do to retain that sanity about weight gain? I remember in an interview you told how much pressure there was on you being a certain weight, or you should try to be a size zero
Vidya Balan: You know I am an eternal optimist. So I think that has really helped me. I don't really have the answer to what can one do to retain one's sanity. But I think some sort, something to hold on to. If you are not finding that sustenance within yourself, I think family or friends or something faith, I think that helps you deal with the pressures. I went through a phase, 7-8 years ago, when you know I just began to do things because I thought that was the right thing to do and I came in for a lot of flak. I came in for flak for everything that I did or didn't do and I think that was life changing, that phase really taught me that you know, I will never be able to make everyone happy and that there are no rules. Because when I came in doing a 'Parineeta', which was an intense love story, it was a mature film and you know people said your first film and you have played a woman, its so limiting, you should be doings films where you are playing a girl, more fluffy and more in the commercial space. So I began to do those films, even though my heart was not in them, not because of anything else, but naturally I do not veer towards them. So I began to make these choices only to fit in and then I realised that you know, whatever I did I couldn't make every one happy. So I just started paying heed to what I wanted to do and importantly I think, for all those people who are going through struggles, I think to know that there is no one way. You know, just because an Amitabh Bachchan has made it in a certain way does not mean that if you follow that path, that you are going to make it similarly. You carve your own path.
NDTV: Exactly, it's not about how you look, and weight and stuff like that. Emraan, how do you deal with it? Because again you said it's not about ego and cutting scenes, but when a film flops, so two films flop in a row, there are always, you find people write our obituary before the person is dead in a sense, how do you keep going?
Emraan Hashmi: You don't listen to those people. I started off in an industry where I was declared dead before I was born. My first or second film and they said that he is not an actor; he doesn't look traditional star material. I started off as a supporting actor, my second film I played a villain. I aspired to go into main lead roles but people said you know just stick around this. My family was also scared for me, they said that you know, don't venture out there. But I was extremely optimistic about things and I think then finally you just take that leap and you go for it and I think this is what the thing is. If they didn't know it back then, after the failure they will write you off and I know that they were wrong back then about me, they said that I wouldn't last a year, I have been here for 12 years now. So I know that those guys that have written my obituary back then in 2003. I am still around so I know they are going to write me off after every flop. Every Friday changes your fate, but you know its the audience eventually that endorses your films and they are not forgiving if you give them a bad film. But if you have a good product on hand they will come back to the cinema halls and will see that product. I have had phases where I have had probably 4 to 5 back-to-back failures at the box office. I think the way I deal with it, I have a fair amount of detachment from both successes and failures. I detach from success on a Saturday or a Sunday. I don't gloat over it nor do I lose sleep over a failure on a Saturday or Sunday. I just detach from it. I thank my upbringing for this. I have been brought up in a fairly critical household so I can deal with the criticism, give me all the big brats and I will deal with it. So you know it's just the way
NDTV: It's the flattery that embarrasses you then?
Emraan Hashmi: Yes it is. I can't...
Vidya Balan: Yes, he can't say thank you
Emraan Hashmi: Yes I can't deal with compliments but criticism is something, you know everyone in my house was like you know, can do better, probably you know, bring out those little nuances
NDTV: You sound almost yogic Emraan, but another interesting thing is usually Bollywood stars seems to live in a world of their own you know. After this Salman Khan incident people said that its about planet Bollywood, often some of the remarks, some of the remarks that come out seems absolutely out of the world. Even now why do you think that Bollywood stars, always some, stay away from engaging in issues around them? That's not what happens in the west. I remember about few years ago when you talked about the problems of finding a flat, the flak that came at you was as if, was almost like a PM or somebody has said something like that. Why do you think Bollywood almost exist on a different planet?
Emraan Hashmi: I don't blame most of the people. When I faced this problem from the housing society I obviously took it out very strongly and the issue then was not about that. It's just got blown out of proportion. Obviously there was a certain amount of media that gave me the support, the right kind of support. But then there was a certain section that obviously becomes extremely critical and it's not about the issue at hand then. Then it goes in to a completely different zone. And I think a lot of insiders in the industry have seen people like me tackling the issue like this and say that probably that's not the right way. I know a lot of actors, I don't want to name them, before me that I have heard that they gone through the same thing, but they never raised their voice about it and I was wondering why haven't they done it? And then after doing this I realized that probably they wanted to go through all the turmoil and then nothing comes out of it, you are willing to go with the right...
NDTV: You are a headline for one day
Emraan Hashmi: Yes, you are a headline for one day, but after that nothing is done about the issue. It's still very prevalent in that high society in Mumbai, in Bandra. It's still very prevalent there
NDTV: Do you find that sad? I mean often its a quest to label, I think is, the nice thing is that Bollywood is an industry, one of the few industries in India; No I wouldn't say that. I think Bollywood is really one of the industries where religion is not an issue at all. It doesn't surprise you when you come and face real life problems or something
Emraan Hashmi: Exactly, Salman, Shah Rukh, Aamir, I mean they are all Muslims stars and I am not just lining a particular community here. I mean there are Muslim societies where again there is a ghetto there, where they don't allow outsiders. It's there with every community and I have been brought up in an extremely secular household. My mom is a Christian, my dad is a Muslim, my wife is a Hindu, the rest of my family is again Hindu, don't ask me how did that happen. It's a very complicated family. But then I realised that you know, going and buying a house there, probably there won't be a problem but obviously when some thing like this happens then you want to question that. Everyone have there own beliefs and I think its a bit too early for them to come out of that and I realised you know....
NDTV: Do you find that Vidya as well? I mean you are a strong woman actress but I find that often actresses will not really come out and speak on issues, whether it is a rising incidence of violence against women etc, except when there is a movie around the corner. Why is that? Because sometimes that kind of undermines what you would feel would be a strong voice to add to a debate.
Vidya Balan: Yes, but I think today also we are not even able to hear our own voices, because there are so many voices saying things all the time that. Some times I wonder if I have an opinion on a lot of things because the mike is being thrust into your face and I may feel strongly about certain things, but I may not want to express for reasons that he just cited. Because there is then judgement about what you have said and there are times when you just want to go through any of that. But more importantly you know I have done this 'Swach Bharat Abhiyan', that's some thing I feel very strongly about. Besides the campaign there are times I am asked about it, I am also knowledgeable about it, so now because of you know, this little reading that I have done so I am happy to contribute. Also maybe if there is a rape or something like that and you are really disturbed you can give a reaction to it. But I find it excruciating that I am expected to react to everything that's happening out there. I think these voices are really making us lose our ability to think and form your own opinions. Everyone is feeding off everyone else's opinions.
Emraan Hashmi: I think its also you know, you want to find a certain expression. If you don't want to go there to the media and take up the cause, in that sense you want to spread the message through a film. And for example, if you believe in something but those films become niche films, people aren't, you know they are tackling with those issues on a day to day basis, you don't have enough light thrown on those films and they just become these small little kitty projects that generally make only 20 crores, because we love escapist cinema and no one wants to be thrust into the reality. But then when we do it to that intent, come on, lets throw light on this it, doesn't get picked up and then the trade says that why isn't he doing the typical 'masala'films? Its like okay, I believed in this, I did this. Like I did a film about corruption and it was a film called 'Shanghai'. Accolades, everyone got praises for it, but the film eventually did only 25 crores at the box office.
NDTV: No I think that was hit, it was a good movie
Emraan Hashmi: It was successful for us in our own way for the kind of niche audience that saw it. Yes they appreciated it, but 25 crores, you expect if it's about our country, if it's that kind of film, you want a lot of people to come and see it, but hey obviously didn't give a pass to a film like that.
NDTV: Well we are finally at the end of The Dialogues and just some quick thoughts of, the one thing you really love about being where you are and what's the one thing you would love to change?
Vidya Balan: I love the fact that I can do the kind of films that I can really want to be doing, that I have a wide variety to choose films today and that you know people are welcoming those films, which means that more and more such films will get made. The thing that I don't like is the extreme judgement that we, as female actors, are put through, especially now that I am married and considering my films post marriage haven't worked
NDTV: Oh no, I hope they are not calling; I hope that's not the reason?
Vidya Balan: Yes, there are people who are saying that. I just don't get, you know it sounds really archaic and ancient to me to be talking like that, to be thinking like that, but there are obviously people who want to make you, I think question your decision to get married or make you feel unhappy about or just make you insecure
NDTV: Age oddly enough is the huge issue in Bollywood. Its not in Hollywood where Meryl Streep will get roles to die for, but every body is saying oh Kangana is the new Vidya, because in a sense, some of the movies she does, she is also the Khan of the movie if you know what I mean. What do you think of when some one...
Vidya Balan: No I think now it's really opening up. I am 36 and I am happy to be playing my age, I don't want to be playing any younger. I think as we go forward we will find roles that suit the age and stage of life that we are in and I am really hopeful that happens, because I am a greedy actor. I want to be acting for the rest of my life and I don't want to reverse age in that sense, just to be relevant
NDTV: As Indian cinema and audiences have hopefully grown up, Emraan the one thing you love and the one thing you absolutely hate about Bollywood?
Emraan Hashmi: I guess again what I love about Bollywood is that its a form of expression, mean as an actor if I have a great script given to me and if I am at point of time in my life where I can find something in that script that I can express, for example a film like 'Hamari Adhuri Kahani', it came to me at the right time. I had a fresh air of experiences in my life in the past 2-3 years that...
NDTV: Your son hasn't been well
Emraan Hashmi: Yes that needed a form of expression. It was a difficult phase that needed that kind of vent on screen that I could vent into a character and I think I found in this film. I think that what it is, it just gives you that vent and that freedom of expression onscreen that you can just mould these different characters and kind of relive, its kind of therapeutic. You can't vent out things in your real life, some how you can be more comfortable in front of the film camera. That's how most of the actors get, probably we can't vent out so many things but when there is character we want to play in a space, I think we vent out easily. I think that's some thing I love about it. What I don't love about Bollywood is again a lot of people telling you what to do and what not to do. Every one here has become a filmmaker, a film critic and a box office expert. I have had people who have nothing to with film industry come and actually give us figures and numbers and say like that this film hasn't done well. You know there is a very nice quote by George Clooney, he said that "we are living in a very pessimistic society it's become very fashionable and very cool to come up to you and say and run you down and say negative things and that's how the world has become." You go to twitter and everything is about you, feel this false sense of power sitting on a computer and ripping off someone and saying that "oh he, she is looking too fat or he has given biggest dud of his life." And its just not very tasteful and I think that we are living in a, its not just about Bollywood, we just live in a very pessimistic society
Vidya Balan: And I think what's really funny is the reviews people send you, people who have nothing to do with films. They will say 'I give this film so and so star' and its onFacebook, its everywhere and I am like why, why can't you just, that I love the film, I love this about it or I hated the film, I hated these things about just, you know, why is everyone wanting to be critic? He was right about being a pessimistic society, I think
NDTV: Yes I guess its just about being thick skinned but I think that has lots of excitement as well. Looking forward to watching your movie and all the very best with it. Thank you so much for joining me.
Vidya and Emraan: Pleasure, thank you.