Wasteful expenditure must be avoided: Pranab Mukherjee to NDTV

With Pranab Mukherjee all set to be sworn-in as President, there is much anticipation of how a 'political President' will give shape and form to Rahstrapati Bhavan. Speaking to NDTV, hours after his official victory, the President-elect says he may have been a Congressman for four decades, but as President he understands the need to defend the constitution, he says, gives clear space to his office to have views that may be divergent from the government.

Pranab Mukherjee's predecessor Pratibha Patil faced fire for her frequent foreign trips, inviting charges of wasteful expenditure. Now, in an interview to NDTV's Barkha Dutt, the president-elect says his presidency will say a firm no to all wasteful expenditure.

Here is a transcript of that interview:

NDTV: After more than four decades in active politics, Pranab Mukherjee is now India's next President. All that is left is the official swearing in. As we have often said it has been a remarkable journey, a journey of a village boy in Birbhum to now the first citizen of the country. Pranabda, many, many congratulations again.
 
Pranab Mukherjee: Thank you.
 
NDTV: We all knew. We all knew that this was a foretold election. It was known even without the contest that you were going to win. But in the last 24 hours, before the result was officially declared, did you have any nervous moments at all?
 
Pranab Mukherjee: Not nervous, as such. But always a candidate will have some sort of tension; if I deny it, it will be wrong. So what I do, did? I just calculated, recalculated, I did. Because, this time when I visited all the States and met all my supporters, MLAs, MPs, leaders of the political parties who extended their support to me, I was overwhelmed by their support so there was no question or scope that there will be any problem. But always I thought that whether the members would be able to come in time, whether there will be any mistake in casting the votes. Though this type of apprehension should not be there because all of them are either elected MLAs or elected MPs. But nonetheless, in the mind of a candidate some sort of; and they do remain. That is, and Mr Sangma's repeated assertion that a miracle would happen. I was wondering what type of miracle can happen, I do not know.
 
NDTV: Were you, were you a little upset that it became a bit a bitter, some of the comments that your opponent Mr Sangma made: and you know he, he even now says that there should be a Code of Conduct for the elections. He's not ruled out taking this verdict to Court. Were you a little upset?
 
Pranab Mukherjee:  I'm not at all upset and I would not like to make any comments on what a contesting candidate said. After all, it is for the address to; the Electorate and the Electorate have responded. So, what is the need of making my comment?
 
NDTV: Pranabda, everybody knew you were going to win but yet there were some surprises. Karnataka, for example: A BJP-ruled state delivered an election to you. Were you, were you surprised by some of those trends? I am sure it heartened you but were you surprised?
 
Pranab Mukherjee: No. Question is that sometimes in these kind of elections, it happens. I do not know exactly what happened, what were the internal reasons, or external reasons, any if they are. I do not know. But sometimes it happens. Sometimes it happens
 
NDTV: And you were glad for their support, of course?
 
Pranab Mukherjee: No, I'm not making any value judgement because what I am happy, that I expected my supporters to cast their votes as per their party lines and all of them have done it. Those who have made mistakes, that is a different issue; to err is human. So individuals may make mistake but political leaders most of the members of the political parties who were my supporters and constituted the Electorate, they voted as per the decision of the party leaders.
 
NDTV: Pranabda, share with us your first, maybe, thought or first thing you did when you knew you had, when you knew you had won.
 
Pranab Mukherjee: No, when that, at the end I was noticing, I was informed from time-to-time that this is the progress. But I always said, even when the galleries were waiting here, I told them that yes I will give my response but wait till the official announcement comes. And when it was formally announced, after some time the Returning Officer came to hand over the certificate to me. But when he formally announced there, from the counting stations, that this is the result of the, the outcome of the res, the outcome of the election. Then I met the media, not before that.
 
NDTV: Your sister predicted, many years ago when you were a little child that you were going to be the next President of India. Today she is saying, see, I was right.  So what is the story behind that? Share that with us.
 
Pranab Mukherjee: No,no that was of course not as a child. I was a grown up person, a Member of Parliament. Jokingly, I told her. She was with me, we were having tea in the verandah; that house was I think on South Avenue.  It was part of, it was very near to 106 or so, it was very near to President's Estate. So I was one day watching the, the horses were well taken care of. So, I said, look, it is better to be the Rashtrapati's horse, so you have to do nothing, but you can get all the attention. And here in Parliament, I was a Member of Parliament, and here you have to, for a speech for fifteen minutes or ten minutes, whether you will get the chance you do not know, whether we will include your name in the list of Speakers, you do not know, but you have to prepare for almost two hours. In early days, for my fifteen to twenty minute speeches I had to put minimum two, two-and-half hours to prepare.
 
NDTV: And your sister said one day you will be President.
 
Pranab Mukherjee: Then she said, then she started laughing and she said why who knows, you may be the President some day.
 
NDTV: So her words have come to be true, Pranabda. But Pranabda, talk a little bit about the role of the President, because there has been a lot of discussion in this country about a political President. You have been written about as a political President because, obviously, you are easily amongst the senior-most politicians of this country. Do you think a political President will be different in office from an apolitical President?
 
Pranab Mukherjee: President's office is a political office because he is the custodian of the Constitution. His job is to protect, preserve and defend the Constitution. Constitution is a document for transacting business of the Republic, both at the Federal level and also at the State level. Therefore, the custodian of that institution, instrument, is a political office. But whether a political person or apolitical person is better suited to the job, you have the history, there are some people who are not hardcore politicians they became President. But large number of hardcore politicians became President. Like Dr Shankar Dayal Sharma was the President of the All India Congress Committee, Union Ministers, they became President of the Republic. Like Fakhruddin Ali who was State Minister, Minister of Assam, the Minister of the Union Government became President. Zail Singh who was Chief Minister of the State, Home Minister of the Indian government, all of them were hardcore political leaders. Therefore, it is not for the first time that I am coming. And everyone, every political party, is political himself. President of the Constituent Assembly, First President of the Republic, was a political person. Generally, in the freedom struggle, President of the, President of the Indian National Congress for several times, I think two or three times, was elected. So therefore, I do not think this is correct to say that for the first time that a political activist is coming as the President. Now role of the President is, you cannot define something which is yet to unfold, because President is expected, as per the Constitution, to respond to a situation keeping a view that his primary job is to protect, preserve and defend the Constitution. Keeping that objective in the view, a situation comes where his intervention is required then he does so. But it will depend on the nature of the situation, as and when comes, what would be the outcome of it, that can be said as and when it happens.
 
NDTV: Pranabda, how much space is there, according to you, for a President to be independent of the government's opinion? We have had very famous Presidents, Rajendra Babu and Jawaharlal Nehru disagreed on the Hindu Code Bill; KR Narayanan disagreed with the government on the President's Rule in Bihar; President Abdul Kalam sent back the Office of Profit Bill. Today you are making the shift, or you have already made it Pranabda, from being a very senior Congressman, to the President of India. Tomorrow you may have to disagree with the government of the day. Now, how much space is there for the President to do that?
 
Pranab Mukherjee: The settlement with the government is not the, is not the thing which was not considered and not conceived in the ...

NDTV: In the Constitution

Pranab Mukherjee: ... in the Constitution. That's why the amendment, the 42nd, through 42nd amendment, it has been stated that when a proposal is sent to the President for the consideration of the government, either the form of a meet or in any other form, President has the right to return it with his comments for the second, for the reconsideration of the Cabinet. But once the Cabinet reconsiders it and if it alters or it does not alter the earlier decision, then President is obliged to give his approval. Therefore this space is clearly determined ...

NDTV: Defined ...

Pranab Mukherjee: ... and defined. Question is that it cannot happen that no President is substantial in the creation of the majority Parties, who constitutes the majority numbers in Houses. President is basically the creation of the majority Party. But, at the same time, in functioning,day-to-day functioning, or maybe sometimes, there may be divergences of the view. Speaker is the nominee of the ruling Party nowadays, but when he gives ruling it is not necessarily in the interest of the ruling party. Therefore, it depends on the situation, no? You cannot make a pre-judgement.
 
NDTV: Pranabda, what style, I think a lot of people want to know, what style and imprint you will bring to the Presidency, because you have a very individual style of your own? Now, why I ask this is because you have some Presidents who are very aloof, they don't talk to the media. Other Presidents talk about reaching out to the people. Will we see you being a President who is accessible to the people of India; will you speak your mind freely, as you have always done in the public space?
 
Pranab Mukherjee: So far as accessibility is concerned, I think accessibility is there and if it is required it can also be looked into, as to how the President can reach to the media persons or what image to be made. That is not a very difficult issue. But in respect to the articulation of the President's view, because the President is always to consider that as each and every action of the President will be watched, carefully, that what impact is going to have in the Constitutional functioning of the Executive, that aspect have to always be kept in mind.

NDTV: Pranabda let me ask you, just as just two last questions. One is you are known, from your family, your daughter talks about it, about being frugal. It comes from also your experience as Finance Minister, you are very careful about how you spend money. Now recently we have seen the President's Office also become the subject of RTI activism. How much money is it okay for a President to spend, how many foreign trips should a President go on? We have seen those kinds of controversies. You, jokingly, said that you would be happy living in a private apartment in Rashtrapati Bhavan, you didn't need the whole Bhavan to yourself. But are you planning to be a frugal President?
 
Pranab Mukherjee: No, I will always, I always believe that wasteful expenditure should not be there. But what is wasteful or not, that I cannot give a blanket formulation. There are certain aspects of those persons who are concerned, that though President's expenditure is not voted, it is charged the amount. But that does not mean it is not subject to scrutiny.
 
NDTV: But you would like to bring your frugal ...
 
Pranab Mukherjee: ... is subjected to scrutiny
 
NDTV: But you would like to bring your discipline to the President's Office?
 
Pranab Mukherjee: I do not want, anywhere, somebody should be overspending or profit.
 
NDTV: Now, one last question Pranabda. You work has already begun before you have been sworn in. Today Shiv Sena is making appeals already on the Afzal Guru mercy petition. Mercy petitions and Presidential pardons have been the source of huge controversy recently. What would you like to say on, one, Afzal Guru and, second, Presidential pardons?
 
Pranab Mukherjee: I cannot make any comment on it because these are the issues that strictly come within the preview of the President's consideration. And President's action is done on the basis of the advice, which he or she gets, from the Council of Ministers. Therefore, these are the matters on which nobody will hear from me under any time that, under what circumstances I am taking a decision. Decision may be known to the individual but process of decision-making should remain secret.
 
NDTV: And, Pranabda, it has been a series of happy endings. Even with now Mamata Banerjee, who says she will be attending your swearing-in. So is all forgiven and forgotten?
 
Pranab Mukherjee: Always we should forgive and forget. And there is no question of forgive, she did never say that she will support me or she will not support me. What she said, till the very last moment, that I will announce my decision at the appropriate time before the actual poll. Every political leader is entitled to have this view, nothing is wrong, nothing is ...
 
NDTV: So there are no hard feelings with Mamata?
 
Pranab Mukherjee: No hard feeling. Secondly, I have no hard feeling to anybody. Therefore, there is no question and when I talked to her, after the election was over, and I requested her that I shall be happy if you can join, she said she had some programme but I think she has adjusted.
 
NDTV: Well, Pranabda, you have a busy day. Thank you so much and to the next President of India, thank you for talking us.