The NDTV Dialogues With Sadhguru Jaggi Vasudev
Spiritual guru Sadhguru Jaggi Vasudev speaks about his youth initiative and what plans he has for the future. The founder of Isha Foundation, which functions with human well-being as its core commitment, was conferred the Padma Vibhushan in 2017 for exceptional and distinguished service. From observations on how the youth of today can improve their lives to other nuggets of wisdom, Sadhguru Jaggi Vasudev shares his views.
Here is a full transcript of Sadhguru Jaggi Vasudev's interview with NDTV:
NDTV: Hello and welcome to The NDTV Dialogues, a conversation of ideas. Tonight, a very special guest, a person who is being described as a spiritual rock star, as a 21st century mystic, as someone who has the answers to the questions you don't dare to ask and he likes motorcycles as well. Sadhguru Jaggi Vasudev Ji, the founder of the Isha Foundation, often speaks at world leadership forums, but also in the villages of Coimbatore and currently he is travelling on a unique mission, Youth And Truth, speaking to young people in college campuses around the country. Sadhguru Ji, thank you very much for being part of The NDTV Dialogues, and we have a young audience here as well. Why did you decide to speak to the young people of India in different college campuses, in IITs, IIMs, even JNU? It's an interesting choice. Why have you decided to go to all these college campuses?
Sadhguru: Well, in the last 36 years that I have been active with people, this is one constant refrain, thousands of people have asked me this question, "Sadhguru, when I was 20, where were you? Now you come when I am 60. If you had come when I was 20, I would have lived in a different way." So, I decided we will step out and meet all those people in this country who are below 25 years of age. Because essentially, what we are referring to as life, is just the combination of certain amount of time and certain amount of energy. Our time is ticking away as we sit here, whether we talk, we are silent, we are sleeping, we are awake, we do something, we do nothing, time just rolls away for all of us. So, it's only the energy that we can manage. So, when we say that segment of life that we call as youth, in that segment, they are at the peak of their energy, they are at the highest level of exuberance of energy. Most youth don't understand this, they think they are going to be like that forever, but it is not so, it's only in that segment of life it happens that way. At that time, if there is a little more clarity and balance to life, that energy could become something else altogether.
NDTV: And we see that youthful energy, expressed in so many ways, there's also dissent on college campuses, there is question on college campuses, there are movements, which people call anti-national on college campuses. Why do you see clashes between young people and the establishment, whether it's political establishment, whether it's Vice-Chancellor, and that's across the country, in different states, different state governments?
Sadhguru: I think it's more than the youth, unfortunately this is happening in the country, we need to relook at it. Political parties of all kinds have entered university campuses. You know, city campus should be left to the students and the youth, they can do their own stuff, but political parties putting money and people into that place, both, from whatever sides I am saying, I think it's creating a wrong atmosphere, where it's becoming, people are taking sides at a very young age. It's very important when you are young you don't take sides, you look at everything fresh and see what is the best thing we can do? For ourselves, for the society in which we live, the country in which we live, the world in which we live, what's the best thing we can do? But I think it's becoming very vitiated and people are taking sides when they are very young, which should not happen.
NDTV: And also, that, I think, perhaps, the adult dominance of the young as well and how we see them. What do you think about these definitions, like anti-national, that are thrown around depending on who is saying it?
Sadhguru: I think this is only in Delhi. I think in the rest of the country, there is no such thing. Only in Delhi, because Delhi is the hot bed of politics and everything is political here. But in the rest of the country, it's not so.
NDTV: That's nice. Of course, West Bengal universities, we also know have always been hot-beds of political activism, Tamil Nadu, Rajasthan. But again, with all the young people you have been speaking to, you are going to JNU tomorrow, so that's a political campus. What do you think of the JNU visit?
Sadhguru: I think, the impressions, young people say what they say, their opinions will evolve over a period of time. There is no need to brand them as this or that at an early age. Well, I must tell you, I was, I am on national television, at the age of 14, I almost joined arms struggle in Andhra Pradesh. Those were the heady days of Charu Majumdar and Sriramalu and Che (Guevara) had just died and you know, fully fired up almost in the watch. Something went wrong in the organisation, which didn't allow me to join at that time, otherwise, two of my friends joined, some things happened, one just vanished, another one was shot dead by the police about six years ago. They were very close to me, we were all together. But certain internal things didn't allow me to join at that time. So, when we are young, revolution is the most romantic thing. It is just that as we grow, little more mature, we see that the time for revolution or at least armed revolution is over. Those times are over. We should have been born in the 19th or 18th century if we wanted to be in armed revolutions. Those revolutions are over. Now, we have to employ democratic process to make change.
NDTV: That's fascinating, because otherwise you would've been called urban naxal, so I am glad that you stayed out of the armed struggle.
Sadhguru: Let it not be caught up with terminology. Naxalism was very much a part of '70s and early '80s. Today, I think it has become much less, a fringe, but at that time it was reasonably mainstream, at least for the youth. So it was not seen as something against the country or whatever, we saw it as the only solution, because it looked like nation was just spinning on the spot, not getting anywhere, the nation was not really getting anywhere. If at all, if you had to infuse some energy into this country, the only way was this, at least that's how we thought. Well, since then India has moved a long way and many things have happened. This doesn't mean that everything is perfect, there are still many more things to be fixed in this country. But at least we know with democratic process, we are moving towards solutions. So, today we have to look at it differently.
NDTV: Sadhguru Ji we have some questions and we have Rahul who also has a question to ask
Rahul: What is the difference between success and significance?
Sadhguru: Success and significance. See, today, unfortunately success is defined as if you are doing little better than your neighbour, you are successful. This definition of success should go. It's very important that for all of you young people and everybody, is your life precious? I am asking. Hello, is your life precious? If it's a precious life, what are you going to invest this life into? This is something you have to look at as profoundly as it is possible for you at this stage in your life. But, without thinking whether you are investing this precious life into the right things or not. if you simply throw it around, you may be still successful compared to somebody else, you will always be successful compared to somebody else. If you compare yourself with the beggar on the street, you are successful. It doesn't mean anything. Just you are earning a few rupees more, doesn't make you successful. Success means at least you are finding full potential to who you are, in terms of your intelligence, your capability and competence, you are finding full expression to who you are, this is important. So, if you are doing that and if you manage to organise competence in sync with many other people, then what we are doing may become significant, may. But world also has to cooperate to become significant.
NDTV: Amongst all the questions that you have taken already and you have said that there are no holds barred, what have been the questions that have come up the most for young people today, to you?
Sadhguru: Well, everybody is talking about relationships, sexuality, drugs, alcohol, this is the common thing. But there are many people, a whole lot of them, about their aspirations, confusions about what to do and what not to do in their life, how to deal with their parents who seem to have a dinosaur's brain.
NDTV: What about the issue for young people that we found a lot in our journalism has been the issue of jobs and unemployment? Has that been a central issue?
Sadhguru: Not at all. Except in IIM Bangalore, one question came up and you know that's been a lot of disturbance in the country, the twitterati is going crazy. What I said was, this is a management school, the elite management school, they are asking, "Will I get a job?" I said, being in a developing country, a developing country means a whole lot of things are not done yet. And we are giving you the best education, we are giving an MBA in IIM in a beautiful, fabulous campus. I said, studying here, you should be ashamed that you are asking me where will you get a job? You must see what you can create in this country because there is so much to be done. Because we are not a developed country, where, oh what shall I do, there is so much to be done, if you just open your eyes and look, there are thousand things to be done for everybody, isn't it? That is what a developing country means. So, this is a time when we can have the joy of creating this nation. Later on, the next generation may enjoy the comforts of it. But we know the striving and the joy of creating something or making something happen. So, it is now that you ask me, it's amazing that nobody asked about employment except this one question in IIM Bangalore.
NDTV: That's actually, that's really an eye-opener. It's very interesting. In fact, and so many of the recent agitations, whether it's the issue of reservations, whether it's the issue of quotas, Patel-quota, X-quota, Y-quota and it comes all across the country. Often, we say that joblessness is the core of that but you actually have a different perspective then on that.
Sadhguru: It's not my perspective, you ask me if they asked questions, they didn't, it's their perspective.
NDTV: But when you see these different protests which are up in different states, it can be Gujarat, it can be Tamil Nadu, it can be Bihar?
Sadhguru: A whole lot of caste-quota things, it has become a means for somebody to become a leader. Unfortunately, in this country, still we are in this mode that if you want to become a leader in some capacity, you don't have to create anything, you don't have to build anything, you don't have to make anything happen. You gather 100 people and block the highway, make everybody's life miserable for 3 days, you may get elected because they think you are a leader. This has to change. If we want to build a nation, this has to change. People who create something, people who strive for something to make things happen for this country, they must become leaders. Right now, there is a whole lot of people who are giving commentary on everybody's mistakes, how they have done this wrong, that wrong. Only those who are striving to create something can make mistakes. Those who are giving live commentary on everybody else's life, they can't make any mistakes because they are not doing anything in their life.
NDTV: What about young people on that? Go ahead...
Audience member: Good evening Sadhguru Ji. Sir, I feel personally that this is an issue which plagues a lot of mental thought process of people of our generation, that we are stuck in a rat-race to an extent, you know, to carve out a certain career at this age, which we try to establish ourselves and become somebody in this world. Do you feel that at such an age, we can find some space for a spiritual aspect at this age or maybe we can channelise that for the betterment of the society or the country in some manner or another, while in the midst of this competition?
Sadhguru: You are not in the midst of any competition. You are in the midst of carving out your life, alright. Everybody is in the process because we are pretty crowded, maybe we will step on each other's feet a little bit. Because we are too many people and here and there, we will step on each other's feet. Now, if you want to do something well, whatever your job or your business or your education, if you want to do it well, the most important thing is you have clarity and you have balance and you know how to harness this body and this brain. So, this is what spiritual process means. Spiritual process means approaching your well-being in a scientific manner as a technology for well-being. While people have been projecting it as spirituality means looking up or looking down. No. Spirituality has always been in this culture being described as self-knowledge, isn't it, when should you get to know about the nature of who you are - at the beginning of your life or at the end of your life, that's all
NDTV: What's interesting is Sadhguru Ji that you are not wedded to any particular ideology
Sadhguru: I am not wedded to anybody or anything.
NDTV: But what we often see around us, what often comes up in this whole clash of ideologies as it were, comes questions about whose ideology is better, who is a majoritarian here, when we talk about Indian culture, does that become associated with ideology? How do we differentiate these things, even yoga for instance, gets associated with an ideology, which seems sad.
Sadhguru: This compartmentalisation is being made by people who have nothing to do with those things. Nobody who is practicing yoga is making it an ideology. Those who are practicing know what's the benefit of it. Those who are not practicing, they say "Oh! You are all a yoga lot, you are all this, you are all that." This labelling is happening from outside. First of all, Ideology means you are trying to concretise some part of your life. You are trying to concretise something simply because you lack consciousness. You don't have the consciousness to simply look at everything fresh, every moment of your life and grasp for what it is. You want to concretise that this is it, this is it, this is it. This is an automated way of functioning. But, once we came here as human beings, only to the humans, we refer to you as a human being. We don't call tiger as a tiger-being, elephant as an elephant-being, ant as an ant-being, because they all live in reaction to what happens around them, whatever the surroundings throw on them, they will react to them as they know best from their instinct to way of doing things. We are supposed to know how to be, how far away from that most people are, that's another matter. But, essentially, we are supposed to know how to be. If we knew how to be, would you keep yourself blissful or miserable. I am asking all the young people. If you know how to be, would you keep yourself blissful or miserable? Blissful. If you are blissful, would you concretise anything within yourself? You would look at life fresh, you would engage and involve in everything, and according to your intelligence at that moment, you will decide what to do. Is it the perfect thing? Maybe not. Somebody else always can find fault with what I am doing but at least, I am not stuck to something. I am always an active intelligence looking at how to do every aspect of my life. This is what needs to happen in the country, this is the basis of this culture. We never have even a moral code in this country simply because we relied on human consciousness, never on morality. Nobody ever, even the so-called divine entities in this culture, never ever gave us a commandment, this is what you must do, this is what you should not do, it's always been a debate under debate even when Shiva or Krishna came, endless debate, isn't it? Questions and questions and questions. So, this is the culture because in this culture, it is about consciousness, it is not about concretisation of our ideas.
NDTV: So why then do we see so many rules that seem to be laid down, whether it's about eating beef, whether it's about Section 377, whether it's about the way a good Hindu should be or a good Muslim should be or a good Catholic should be? Why is religious rule taking centrestage?
Sadhguru: Many things that you mentioned, either about the cow-slaughter or the 377, none of these things are religious. How are they religious? Why are you saying it's religious? It is of cultural significance, it's of economic significance, people are missing the whole point that bovine animals are the basis of our wealth in the village, those of you living in the city maybe you have not seen a cow, so what can we do about that? But I am saying, if you live in a village, cattle were your economic wealth. And if somebody steals it from you, naturally you are going to run after it because you can cut it and eat it up and my wealth will disappear, can't trace it, it's not like a car I can go and find it somewhere. If you eat up my bovine animal, even a goat or a sheep, you must understand, if these things happen, not only for a cow, even if you steal a sheep or a goat, it still happens. But people are leaving it.
NDTV: Lynching, Sadhguru Ji, lynching at this time, in the 21st century...
Sadhguru: You know that I have spoken about it. But you are again asking the question. You know I have clearly spoken about it. What I am saying is, we have a nation, still geographically, our law does not cover every square inch of this nation, law cannot reach, it is simply not equipped. Right now, suppose you steal my cow, what am I supposed to do? Go and file an FIR? Do you think so? And go to the court and after 20 years, I will get my justice for my cow? My cow is gone means tomorrow my children won't eat. This is my condition of poverty. When this is the condition of poverty, in the villages they have their own norms. If you steal a cow, what will we do to you? If you touch my daughter, what will we do to you? If you do something else, what will we do to you? They have got their own mob justice.
NDTV: But Sadhguru Ji, these are not really the villagers, these we see organised groups of gau-rakshaks, even the Prime Minister says these are not gau-rakshaks, these are vigilantes.
Sadhguru: No. No. See, crime happens in the country, I am not giving a commentary on the crime situation. Any kinds of crime happen, out of that somebody misuses this also, it happens, I am not talking about that. But I am talking about, people are talking about lynching, maybe even the media doesn't know this, let me say this, because media is reporting 42 lynchings in the country. Believe me, many, many more happen. Not all may die but thrashing of somebody because he stole something, especially when it comes to animals. Why animals get more attention is, you can take an animal, cut it in your house, eat it up, make meat out of it, sell it somewhere, it's gone, no proof. Okay? If you steal my land, I can come and prove you have taken my land, you take my car or motorcycle, I can come and prove you have taken it. When you take my animal, in two days-time you will make it vanish, there is no proof. So, always the reaction for animals and children is big.
NDTV: But I am looking at more also from the aspect of the religious angle, because has it become, leaving aside the issue of cow-slaughter, has this ratio of Hindu-Muslim riots become an issue?
Sadhguru: I think all the television channels are trying hard to give it a religious angle. You must stop that.
NDTV: You think only television channels Sadhguru Ji?
Sadhguru: No, no. There is a problem. I am not saying there is no problem in this country. There is a problem. Do we want to settle the problem? Do you want to aggravate the problem? That is a question you all must answer.
NDTV: How do you think we can settle this problem? Because that really must be the focus
Sadhguru: One important thing is, everyone knows where the hotspots are in the country, it's not all over the place, just a few hotspots. These hotspots can be managed, proper policing can be done, enforcement can be done, those who are vulnerable can be protected properly. If you just do this for 6 months to 1 year, when that situation passes, some situation is there, anger builds up among people, so when that happens, it needs to be managed. Instead of that, somebody is playing with it. Alright? When you play with it, what is a quarrel becomes a fight, fight becomes killing. We must understand, this is how social dynamics function.
NDTV: Do you think politics and religion are now to be separated in the sense, do you think this cocktail or the mixture of religion and politics is not working?
Sadhguru: It is clearly separated in our Constitution. I don't see how it is mixed up. Our idea of separation if it is, a politician should not go to the temple or mosque or church. No. That is not how it is, they can privately practice whatever they want. But religion and politics are distinctly separate in this country as per the Constitution. It is only certain people saying, which never gets any attention, certain people are clearly saying our religion is superior to the Constitution, we will not follow the Constitution, we will follow only our religion. But nothing is said about that. Actually, should be taken about that, isn't it?
NDTV: Of course. What's interesting is Sadhguru Ji is also now we have seen many Yogis in politics. Whether it's Baba Ramdev often talking on politics...
Sadhguru: I think Baba Ramdev is in business
NDTV: Exactly. So, Yogis in politics or business, can spirituality, can the whole ascetic nature of being a Yogi mix with politics and business and other statements? You have made some political statements, which the political leaders have reacted to, on Sterlite
Sadhguru: Before you ask that question, you must ask a question, because I am a Yogi, will you give me a tax benefit? Will you let me drive on the street without a licence? Will you let me fly without a ticket? Will you? No. Then, when I am fulfilling all the responsibilities of being a citizen, what is the problem about my rights as a citizen? What is the issue about that? Because you are a journalist, you should not be allowed to eat in a restaurant, is it? I don't know from where this question comes from? Well, the Yogi is fulfilling all the responsibilities of being a citizen in this country. So, he must be a citizen without rights, is it? is that what you are asking?
NDTV: No. I am asking should Yogis be politically involved?
Sadhguru: They can be involved in anything in this country as long as it's legal. They can even become journalists, I may become, just hold on.
NDTV: You are questioning me as well. But let me ask you all. Do you think there should be that mix? Do you think it's interesting to hear voices like Sadhguru Ji's and I must say Sadhguru Ji has spoken at World Leadership Forums, he has spoken at Ted Talks, do you think there should be a mix of Yogis and politics and leaving aside Sadhguru Ji, there are many others who are also in politics, what do you all think?
Sadhguru: I am not in politics
NDTV: No, I said leaving aside Sadhguru Ji. We will come back on that. But just to ask Sadhguru Ji...
Sadhguru: No. This is to be looked at like this. See, in this country, we are right now one of the biggest and the most significant and important thing that we need to do is we need economic development in the country. Why? Still because 500 million people have not even eaten properly, forget about anything else. When 500 million people in a nation are going to bed without enough food in their stomach, there is nothing else, first thing is economic development. If economic development needs to happen, if somebody starts a successful business, whether it's a Yogi or a journalist as a politician or insane man, it doesn't matter. If he is running a legitimate business successfully, should we applaud that or should we worry about it?
NDTV: But it doesn't contradict then - how is a Yogi different from anyone else? How is he different from the worldly pleasures?
Sadhguru: Yogi is capable of doing anything effortlessly. I will tell you. Some conference in Chennai and they are driving me, normally I don't let anybody drive me, I don't like the way they drive, most of them. Most of them don't know where they are going while driving. So, it's not going anywhere, it's getting late. I have a reputation in these 36 years, I have not been late to a single event, including today. Not a single event have I been late anywhere in the world, though I may have 4-5 events in a day. So, I see this man is not getting anywhere. So, I asked him to get off. And I get into the driver's seat and do some aggressive driving. And, you know, all the hotels after that Mumbai event, Mumbai attack, everywhere you have to stop, he will open the bonnet, he will look at the boot, he doesn't know what is he looking at, he is checking my engine, I don't know. So, one car goes ahead before the barrier comes down, I just zoomed through that, go and leave the car in the portico and run into the hotel for the conference. So I am on time, I finished my conference and I come, some journalists are waiting. They said, "You drive your own car. But in ancient times, Yogis used to walk." I said, "You idiot. In ancient times, everybody used to walk. Not just the Yogis." I am saying, most people's idea for Yogi is from a calendar. They think still the Yogi should be doing the same thing. You must understand that was just one picture that was taken of the man, he was doing many things in his life.
NDTV: One other aspect Sadhguru Ji, it is the high incidence of violence against women, the whole assault on women, rapes we are seeing around the country and now worse and worse, we also see this in religious institutions, whether it's some Baba, whether it's a Muslim cleric, whether it's in a Catholic Church, this high incidence of religious violence even in religious institutions. Do people lose faith in religious institutions when we hear of incidents like this?
Sadhguru: See, unfortunately, if our Indian Journalism makes an effort to travel to all the institutions, irrespective of their whatever backgrounds and attachments, and report what are all wonderful things they are doing, it would make an interesting story. But you report only when somebody does something wrong like this. There are thousands of institutions. Till now in the last 10 years, you might have reported about a dozen nasty ones, but only rotten apples get reported. Really sweet ones never get reported. I have somehow managed to sit with you, otherwise...
NDTV: Not at all Sadhguru Ji, we have reported on your work and many other works across the country so far.
Sadhguru: I am not complaining. I am just saying, it looks like they are all doing wrong things only because these dozen people got reported. All the other wonderful people are doing a whole lot of work, they never get reported, they may not have the wherewithal like me to go everywhere in the world and do everything. They may be just in their own region doing good work, whole lot of them.
NDTV: It's interesting when you made that point also about spirituality and how twitterati, because you of course in your views on feminism have got a lot of feedback on that, including from senior IPS officers. What are women's duties? What did you mean when you said about feminism, that feminists shouldn't become like men? And this is an important style of US feminism. You got a lot of flak on that.
Sadhguru: No. No flak. A huge amount of appreciation. Handful of people because this has become the unfortunate situation in the country, this is not the first time. Every time I speak something, there is a group of people who are always waiting to mischievously edit those things and put out in a provocative way. Well, when you are having a conversation you say many things, in that you cut out two sentences, and say this is what he said, it's just ridiculous stuff. So, I don't respond to those things simply because it's obvious they are motivated people. Leaving that aside, about feminism, after that I tweeted two more, because somebody that I knew, some very prominent women wrote to me and said Sadhguru, why is it coming out like this? These are not your words. I said these are not my words, they are editing it and doing this, so I again tweeted twice so that it's clear to them. See, essentially, what I said was, if money is the only value in a society, what is masculine will rule whether you like it or don't like it. I am talking masculine, not men. So if masculine rules, if women want to be successful, what do they have to do, they have to shed their feminine nature, act like men. This is a sad society. If you just beat out all feminine nature in this world, this will become an ugly world. So I said, if money is the only value, now they are saying, should we not earn money? Who said you should not, but that should be the basic value, the economy should be the basic value of our life. Right now, it has become like this, if you say a big man in Delhi, do you mean to say he has got a big brain? Do you mean to say he has got a big heart? No, he has got a big pocket. So, the only thing we are referring to, when we go like this in a society, we will destroy the feminine nature, unless there is equal opportunity for all aspects of life in a given society. There is value for everything, only then feminine will flourish.
NDTV: Sakshi has a question...
Sakshi: Namaste Sir. Sir, we all saw that how you and Baba Ramdev drove your Ducati in the Isha Foundation Campus. So, your liking towards your bikes is since your teenage or is this something you developed over the years? And don't you think that a Yoga guru riding a bike in India is much a cooler topic and then even you should think about your dressing sense in that case?
NDTV: Bikes keep you young Sadhguru Ji...
Sadhguru: See, I have been riding, I started riding a scooter when I was 9 years of age. And I rode from Mysore to Bangalore, 140 kilometres when I was twelve and a half or thirteen years of age. Without my father's knowledge in the evening, I took the scooter all the way to Bangalore and brought it back, a big adventure. So, me and two-wheels, they just go together.
NDTV: And you have slept on your motorcycle many nights as well.
Sadhguru: I have criss-crossed India on my motorcycle. For about 7-8 years, I literally lived on a motorcycle. So, since then I have been so busy, not much opportunity, here and there I ride off-road. When I get the opportunity, when I get the motorcycle I will repeat a little bit. So, that day, you know when I go for work inside the ashram, it's easier to ride a two-wheeler than drive something. So I was at work, he was supposed to come at 4 o'clock, then at 3:40, they said he is already here. I was supposed to go and pick him up in my car, instead I went there on a motorcycle. Just for fun I said, why don't you come and he was game, so he sat on the motorcycle and we just rode. And nobody captured this video. What happened was, see this is the thing of the day, people who are standing along the road, many of them in their cell-phones caught this video. So someone took all these bits and pieces, put it together and made a video of it. There was no one camera following this motorcycle because it was just an ad-hoc thing.
NDTV: Baba Ramdev came on our programme, we called him the Yogi Billionaire. I think, as you made the point, being a Yogi is about what's inside you and not about these outside labels at all.
Sadhguru: Being a Yogi means both physically, mentally, consciousness-wise you are absolutely flexible.
NDTV: Sadhguru Ji, thank you so much for being on The NDTV Dialogues and congratulations, because you are getting an award from the President for your role, of course in rural sports, which is something of a major focus also being covered.
Sadhguru: This whole thing started off because I encountered some very caste related opposition when I was doing some work and it took me some time to realise because I was making them, forcing them to eat together, different caste groups, whatever in their tradition it says you can't eat with this caste or that caste. I tried and things broke out. Certain amount of friction happened. Then I came up with the idea, let them play together. Nowhere in the tradition does it say that they should not play together. There is no book to say that you cannot play together. Something, somewhere says you are not supposed to eat together, but playing together there is no restriction. They started playing, they forgot their caste and creed and everything.
NDTV: That's wonderful. Sports as a unifier
Sadhguru: So a ball can change the world. And today, it's a massive process. Last year, we did in collaboration with UNICEF. This year on 9th of December, young people should come and participate in this. 9th of December, we have an event where from all rural Tamil Nadu and some from Andhra Pradesh, nearly 38,000 players are involved in the tournament.
NDTV: Fantastic. I applaud this initiative, you are reaching out to young people of India. I think that really is our future. Thank you Sadhguru Ji for being part of The NDTV Dialogues. Thank you.
Here is a full transcript of Sadhguru Jaggi Vasudev's interview with NDTV:
NDTV: Hello and welcome to The NDTV Dialogues, a conversation of ideas. Tonight, a very special guest, a person who is being described as a spiritual rock star, as a 21st century mystic, as someone who has the answers to the questions you don't dare to ask and he likes motorcycles as well. Sadhguru Jaggi Vasudev Ji, the founder of the Isha Foundation, often speaks at world leadership forums, but also in the villages of Coimbatore and currently he is travelling on a unique mission, Youth And Truth, speaking to young people in college campuses around the country. Sadhguru Ji, thank you very much for being part of The NDTV Dialogues, and we have a young audience here as well. Why did you decide to speak to the young people of India in different college campuses, in IITs, IIMs, even JNU? It's an interesting choice. Why have you decided to go to all these college campuses?
Sadhguru: Well, in the last 36 years that I have been active with people, this is one constant refrain, thousands of people have asked me this question, "Sadhguru, when I was 20, where were you? Now you come when I am 60. If you had come when I was 20, I would have lived in a different way." So, I decided we will step out and meet all those people in this country who are below 25 years of age. Because essentially, what we are referring to as life, is just the combination of certain amount of time and certain amount of energy. Our time is ticking away as we sit here, whether we talk, we are silent, we are sleeping, we are awake, we do something, we do nothing, time just rolls away for all of us. So, it's only the energy that we can manage. So, when we say that segment of life that we call as youth, in that segment, they are at the peak of their energy, they are at the highest level of exuberance of energy. Most youth don't understand this, they think they are going to be like that forever, but it is not so, it's only in that segment of life it happens that way. At that time, if there is a little more clarity and balance to life, that energy could become something else altogether.
NDTV: And we see that youthful energy, expressed in so many ways, there's also dissent on college campuses, there is question on college campuses, there are movements, which people call anti-national on college campuses. Why do you see clashes between young people and the establishment, whether it's political establishment, whether it's Vice-Chancellor, and that's across the country, in different states, different state governments?
Sadhguru: I think it's more than the youth, unfortunately this is happening in the country, we need to relook at it. Political parties of all kinds have entered university campuses. You know, city campus should be left to the students and the youth, they can do their own stuff, but political parties putting money and people into that place, both, from whatever sides I am saying, I think it's creating a wrong atmosphere, where it's becoming, people are taking sides at a very young age. It's very important when you are young you don't take sides, you look at everything fresh and see what is the best thing we can do? For ourselves, for the society in which we live, the country in which we live, the world in which we live, what's the best thing we can do? But I think it's becoming very vitiated and people are taking sides when they are very young, which should not happen.
NDTV: And also, that, I think, perhaps, the adult dominance of the young as well and how we see them. What do you think about these definitions, like anti-national, that are thrown around depending on who is saying it?
Sadhguru: I think this is only in Delhi. I think in the rest of the country, there is no such thing. Only in Delhi, because Delhi is the hot bed of politics and everything is political here. But in the rest of the country, it's not so.
NDTV: That's nice. Of course, West Bengal universities, we also know have always been hot-beds of political activism, Tamil Nadu, Rajasthan. But again, with all the young people you have been speaking to, you are going to JNU tomorrow, so that's a political campus. What do you think of the JNU visit?
Sadhguru: I think, the impressions, young people say what they say, their opinions will evolve over a period of time. There is no need to brand them as this or that at an early age. Well, I must tell you, I was, I am on national television, at the age of 14, I almost joined arms struggle in Andhra Pradesh. Those were the heady days of Charu Majumdar and Sriramalu and Che (Guevara) had just died and you know, fully fired up almost in the watch. Something went wrong in the organisation, which didn't allow me to join at that time, otherwise, two of my friends joined, some things happened, one just vanished, another one was shot dead by the police about six years ago. They were very close to me, we were all together. But certain internal things didn't allow me to join at that time. So, when we are young, revolution is the most romantic thing. It is just that as we grow, little more mature, we see that the time for revolution or at least armed revolution is over. Those times are over. We should have been born in the 19th or 18th century if we wanted to be in armed revolutions. Those revolutions are over. Now, we have to employ democratic process to make change.
NDTV: That's fascinating, because otherwise you would've been called urban naxal, so I am glad that you stayed out of the armed struggle.
Sadhguru: Let it not be caught up with terminology. Naxalism was very much a part of '70s and early '80s. Today, I think it has become much less, a fringe, but at that time it was reasonably mainstream, at least for the youth. So it was not seen as something against the country or whatever, we saw it as the only solution, because it looked like nation was just spinning on the spot, not getting anywhere, the nation was not really getting anywhere. If at all, if you had to infuse some energy into this country, the only way was this, at least that's how we thought. Well, since then India has moved a long way and many things have happened. This doesn't mean that everything is perfect, there are still many more things to be fixed in this country. But at least we know with democratic process, we are moving towards solutions. So, today we have to look at it differently.
NDTV: Sadhguru Ji we have some questions and we have Rahul who also has a question to ask
Rahul: What is the difference between success and significance?
Sadhguru: Success and significance. See, today, unfortunately success is defined as if you are doing little better than your neighbour, you are successful. This definition of success should go. It's very important that for all of you young people and everybody, is your life precious? I am asking. Hello, is your life precious? If it's a precious life, what are you going to invest this life into? This is something you have to look at as profoundly as it is possible for you at this stage in your life. But, without thinking whether you are investing this precious life into the right things or not. if you simply throw it around, you may be still successful compared to somebody else, you will always be successful compared to somebody else. If you compare yourself with the beggar on the street, you are successful. It doesn't mean anything. Just you are earning a few rupees more, doesn't make you successful. Success means at least you are finding full potential to who you are, in terms of your intelligence, your capability and competence, you are finding full expression to who you are, this is important. So, if you are doing that and if you manage to organise competence in sync with many other people, then what we are doing may become significant, may. But world also has to cooperate to become significant.
NDTV: Amongst all the questions that you have taken already and you have said that there are no holds barred, what have been the questions that have come up the most for young people today, to you?
Sadhguru: Well, everybody is talking about relationships, sexuality, drugs, alcohol, this is the common thing. But there are many people, a whole lot of them, about their aspirations, confusions about what to do and what not to do in their life, how to deal with their parents who seem to have a dinosaur's brain.
NDTV: What about the issue for young people that we found a lot in our journalism has been the issue of jobs and unemployment? Has that been a central issue?
Sadhguru: Not at all. Except in IIM Bangalore, one question came up and you know that's been a lot of disturbance in the country, the twitterati is going crazy. What I said was, this is a management school, the elite management school, they are asking, "Will I get a job?" I said, being in a developing country, a developing country means a whole lot of things are not done yet. And we are giving you the best education, we are giving an MBA in IIM in a beautiful, fabulous campus. I said, studying here, you should be ashamed that you are asking me where will you get a job? You must see what you can create in this country because there is so much to be done. Because we are not a developed country, where, oh what shall I do, there is so much to be done, if you just open your eyes and look, there are thousand things to be done for everybody, isn't it? That is what a developing country means. So, this is a time when we can have the joy of creating this nation. Later on, the next generation may enjoy the comforts of it. But we know the striving and the joy of creating something or making something happen. So, it is now that you ask me, it's amazing that nobody asked about employment except this one question in IIM Bangalore.
NDTV: That's actually, that's really an eye-opener. It's very interesting. In fact, and so many of the recent agitations, whether it's the issue of reservations, whether it's the issue of quotas, Patel-quota, X-quota, Y-quota and it comes all across the country. Often, we say that joblessness is the core of that but you actually have a different perspective then on that.
Sadhguru: It's not my perspective, you ask me if they asked questions, they didn't, it's their perspective.
NDTV: But when you see these different protests which are up in different states, it can be Gujarat, it can be Tamil Nadu, it can be Bihar?
Sadhguru: A whole lot of caste-quota things, it has become a means for somebody to become a leader. Unfortunately, in this country, still we are in this mode that if you want to become a leader in some capacity, you don't have to create anything, you don't have to build anything, you don't have to make anything happen. You gather 100 people and block the highway, make everybody's life miserable for 3 days, you may get elected because they think you are a leader. This has to change. If we want to build a nation, this has to change. People who create something, people who strive for something to make things happen for this country, they must become leaders. Right now, there is a whole lot of people who are giving commentary on everybody's mistakes, how they have done this wrong, that wrong. Only those who are striving to create something can make mistakes. Those who are giving live commentary on everybody else's life, they can't make any mistakes because they are not doing anything in their life.
NDTV: What about young people on that? Go ahead...
Audience member: Good evening Sadhguru Ji. Sir, I feel personally that this is an issue which plagues a lot of mental thought process of people of our generation, that we are stuck in a rat-race to an extent, you know, to carve out a certain career at this age, which we try to establish ourselves and become somebody in this world. Do you feel that at such an age, we can find some space for a spiritual aspect at this age or maybe we can channelise that for the betterment of the society or the country in some manner or another, while in the midst of this competition?
Sadhguru: You are not in the midst of any competition. You are in the midst of carving out your life, alright. Everybody is in the process because we are pretty crowded, maybe we will step on each other's feet a little bit. Because we are too many people and here and there, we will step on each other's feet. Now, if you want to do something well, whatever your job or your business or your education, if you want to do it well, the most important thing is you have clarity and you have balance and you know how to harness this body and this brain. So, this is what spiritual process means. Spiritual process means approaching your well-being in a scientific manner as a technology for well-being. While people have been projecting it as spirituality means looking up or looking down. No. Spirituality has always been in this culture being described as self-knowledge, isn't it, when should you get to know about the nature of who you are - at the beginning of your life or at the end of your life, that's all
NDTV: What's interesting is Sadhguru Ji that you are not wedded to any particular ideology
Sadhguru: I am not wedded to anybody or anything.
NDTV: But what we often see around us, what often comes up in this whole clash of ideologies as it were, comes questions about whose ideology is better, who is a majoritarian here, when we talk about Indian culture, does that become associated with ideology? How do we differentiate these things, even yoga for instance, gets associated with an ideology, which seems sad.
Sadhguru: This compartmentalisation is being made by people who have nothing to do with those things. Nobody who is practicing yoga is making it an ideology. Those who are practicing know what's the benefit of it. Those who are not practicing, they say "Oh! You are all a yoga lot, you are all this, you are all that." This labelling is happening from outside. First of all, Ideology means you are trying to concretise some part of your life. You are trying to concretise something simply because you lack consciousness. You don't have the consciousness to simply look at everything fresh, every moment of your life and grasp for what it is. You want to concretise that this is it, this is it, this is it. This is an automated way of functioning. But, once we came here as human beings, only to the humans, we refer to you as a human being. We don't call tiger as a tiger-being, elephant as an elephant-being, ant as an ant-being, because they all live in reaction to what happens around them, whatever the surroundings throw on them, they will react to them as they know best from their instinct to way of doing things. We are supposed to know how to be, how far away from that most people are, that's another matter. But, essentially, we are supposed to know how to be. If we knew how to be, would you keep yourself blissful or miserable. I am asking all the young people. If you know how to be, would you keep yourself blissful or miserable? Blissful. If you are blissful, would you concretise anything within yourself? You would look at life fresh, you would engage and involve in everything, and according to your intelligence at that moment, you will decide what to do. Is it the perfect thing? Maybe not. Somebody else always can find fault with what I am doing but at least, I am not stuck to something. I am always an active intelligence looking at how to do every aspect of my life. This is what needs to happen in the country, this is the basis of this culture. We never have even a moral code in this country simply because we relied on human consciousness, never on morality. Nobody ever, even the so-called divine entities in this culture, never ever gave us a commandment, this is what you must do, this is what you should not do, it's always been a debate under debate even when Shiva or Krishna came, endless debate, isn't it? Questions and questions and questions. So, this is the culture because in this culture, it is about consciousness, it is not about concretisation of our ideas.
NDTV: So why then do we see so many rules that seem to be laid down, whether it's about eating beef, whether it's about Section 377, whether it's about the way a good Hindu should be or a good Muslim should be or a good Catholic should be? Why is religious rule taking centrestage?
Sadhguru: Many things that you mentioned, either about the cow-slaughter or the 377, none of these things are religious. How are they religious? Why are you saying it's religious? It is of cultural significance, it's of economic significance, people are missing the whole point that bovine animals are the basis of our wealth in the village, those of you living in the city maybe you have not seen a cow, so what can we do about that? But I am saying, if you live in a village, cattle were your economic wealth. And if somebody steals it from you, naturally you are going to run after it because you can cut it and eat it up and my wealth will disappear, can't trace it, it's not like a car I can go and find it somewhere. If you eat up my bovine animal, even a goat or a sheep, you must understand, if these things happen, not only for a cow, even if you steal a sheep or a goat, it still happens. But people are leaving it.
NDTV: Lynching, Sadhguru Ji, lynching at this time, in the 21st century...
Sadhguru: You know that I have spoken about it. But you are again asking the question. You know I have clearly spoken about it. What I am saying is, we have a nation, still geographically, our law does not cover every square inch of this nation, law cannot reach, it is simply not equipped. Right now, suppose you steal my cow, what am I supposed to do? Go and file an FIR? Do you think so? And go to the court and after 20 years, I will get my justice for my cow? My cow is gone means tomorrow my children won't eat. This is my condition of poverty. When this is the condition of poverty, in the villages they have their own norms. If you steal a cow, what will we do to you? If you touch my daughter, what will we do to you? If you do something else, what will we do to you? They have got their own mob justice.
NDTV: But Sadhguru Ji, these are not really the villagers, these we see organised groups of gau-rakshaks, even the Prime Minister says these are not gau-rakshaks, these are vigilantes.
Sadhguru: No. No. See, crime happens in the country, I am not giving a commentary on the crime situation. Any kinds of crime happen, out of that somebody misuses this also, it happens, I am not talking about that. But I am talking about, people are talking about lynching, maybe even the media doesn't know this, let me say this, because media is reporting 42 lynchings in the country. Believe me, many, many more happen. Not all may die but thrashing of somebody because he stole something, especially when it comes to animals. Why animals get more attention is, you can take an animal, cut it in your house, eat it up, make meat out of it, sell it somewhere, it's gone, no proof. Okay? If you steal my land, I can come and prove you have taken my land, you take my car or motorcycle, I can come and prove you have taken it. When you take my animal, in two days-time you will make it vanish, there is no proof. So, always the reaction for animals and children is big.
NDTV: But I am looking at more also from the aspect of the religious angle, because has it become, leaving aside the issue of cow-slaughter, has this ratio of Hindu-Muslim riots become an issue?
Sadhguru: I think all the television channels are trying hard to give it a religious angle. You must stop that.
NDTV: You think only television channels Sadhguru Ji?
Sadhguru: No, no. There is a problem. I am not saying there is no problem in this country. There is a problem. Do we want to settle the problem? Do you want to aggravate the problem? That is a question you all must answer.
NDTV: How do you think we can settle this problem? Because that really must be the focus
Sadhguru: One important thing is, everyone knows where the hotspots are in the country, it's not all over the place, just a few hotspots. These hotspots can be managed, proper policing can be done, enforcement can be done, those who are vulnerable can be protected properly. If you just do this for 6 months to 1 year, when that situation passes, some situation is there, anger builds up among people, so when that happens, it needs to be managed. Instead of that, somebody is playing with it. Alright? When you play with it, what is a quarrel becomes a fight, fight becomes killing. We must understand, this is how social dynamics function.
NDTV: Do you think politics and religion are now to be separated in the sense, do you think this cocktail or the mixture of religion and politics is not working?
Sadhguru: It is clearly separated in our Constitution. I don't see how it is mixed up. Our idea of separation if it is, a politician should not go to the temple or mosque or church. No. That is not how it is, they can privately practice whatever they want. But religion and politics are distinctly separate in this country as per the Constitution. It is only certain people saying, which never gets any attention, certain people are clearly saying our religion is superior to the Constitution, we will not follow the Constitution, we will follow only our religion. But nothing is said about that. Actually, should be taken about that, isn't it?
NDTV: Of course. What's interesting is Sadhguru Ji is also now we have seen many Yogis in politics. Whether it's Baba Ramdev often talking on politics...
Sadhguru: I think Baba Ramdev is in business
NDTV: Exactly. So, Yogis in politics or business, can spirituality, can the whole ascetic nature of being a Yogi mix with politics and business and other statements? You have made some political statements, which the political leaders have reacted to, on Sterlite
Sadhguru: Before you ask that question, you must ask a question, because I am a Yogi, will you give me a tax benefit? Will you let me drive on the street without a licence? Will you let me fly without a ticket? Will you? No. Then, when I am fulfilling all the responsibilities of being a citizen, what is the problem about my rights as a citizen? What is the issue about that? Because you are a journalist, you should not be allowed to eat in a restaurant, is it? I don't know from where this question comes from? Well, the Yogi is fulfilling all the responsibilities of being a citizen in this country. So, he must be a citizen without rights, is it? is that what you are asking?
NDTV: No. I am asking should Yogis be politically involved?
Sadhguru: They can be involved in anything in this country as long as it's legal. They can even become journalists, I may become, just hold on.
NDTV: You are questioning me as well. But let me ask you all. Do you think there should be that mix? Do you think it's interesting to hear voices like Sadhguru Ji's and I must say Sadhguru Ji has spoken at World Leadership Forums, he has spoken at Ted Talks, do you think there should be a mix of Yogis and politics and leaving aside Sadhguru Ji, there are many others who are also in politics, what do you all think?
Sadhguru: I am not in politics
NDTV: No, I said leaving aside Sadhguru Ji. We will come back on that. But just to ask Sadhguru Ji...
Sadhguru: No. This is to be looked at like this. See, in this country, we are right now one of the biggest and the most significant and important thing that we need to do is we need economic development in the country. Why? Still because 500 million people have not even eaten properly, forget about anything else. When 500 million people in a nation are going to bed without enough food in their stomach, there is nothing else, first thing is economic development. If economic development needs to happen, if somebody starts a successful business, whether it's a Yogi or a journalist as a politician or insane man, it doesn't matter. If he is running a legitimate business successfully, should we applaud that or should we worry about it?
NDTV: But it doesn't contradict then - how is a Yogi different from anyone else? How is he different from the worldly pleasures?
Sadhguru: Yogi is capable of doing anything effortlessly. I will tell you. Some conference in Chennai and they are driving me, normally I don't let anybody drive me, I don't like the way they drive, most of them. Most of them don't know where they are going while driving. So, it's not going anywhere, it's getting late. I have a reputation in these 36 years, I have not been late to a single event, including today. Not a single event have I been late anywhere in the world, though I may have 4-5 events in a day. So, I see this man is not getting anywhere. So, I asked him to get off. And I get into the driver's seat and do some aggressive driving. And, you know, all the hotels after that Mumbai event, Mumbai attack, everywhere you have to stop, he will open the bonnet, he will look at the boot, he doesn't know what is he looking at, he is checking my engine, I don't know. So, one car goes ahead before the barrier comes down, I just zoomed through that, go and leave the car in the portico and run into the hotel for the conference. So I am on time, I finished my conference and I come, some journalists are waiting. They said, "You drive your own car. But in ancient times, Yogis used to walk." I said, "You idiot. In ancient times, everybody used to walk. Not just the Yogis." I am saying, most people's idea for Yogi is from a calendar. They think still the Yogi should be doing the same thing. You must understand that was just one picture that was taken of the man, he was doing many things in his life.
NDTV: One other aspect Sadhguru Ji, it is the high incidence of violence against women, the whole assault on women, rapes we are seeing around the country and now worse and worse, we also see this in religious institutions, whether it's some Baba, whether it's a Muslim cleric, whether it's in a Catholic Church, this high incidence of religious violence even in religious institutions. Do people lose faith in religious institutions when we hear of incidents like this?
Sadhguru: See, unfortunately, if our Indian Journalism makes an effort to travel to all the institutions, irrespective of their whatever backgrounds and attachments, and report what are all wonderful things they are doing, it would make an interesting story. But you report only when somebody does something wrong like this. There are thousands of institutions. Till now in the last 10 years, you might have reported about a dozen nasty ones, but only rotten apples get reported. Really sweet ones never get reported. I have somehow managed to sit with you, otherwise...
NDTV: Not at all Sadhguru Ji, we have reported on your work and many other works across the country so far.
Sadhguru: I am not complaining. I am just saying, it looks like they are all doing wrong things only because these dozen people got reported. All the other wonderful people are doing a whole lot of work, they never get reported, they may not have the wherewithal like me to go everywhere in the world and do everything. They may be just in their own region doing good work, whole lot of them.
NDTV: It's interesting when you made that point also about spirituality and how twitterati, because you of course in your views on feminism have got a lot of feedback on that, including from senior IPS officers. What are women's duties? What did you mean when you said about feminism, that feminists shouldn't become like men? And this is an important style of US feminism. You got a lot of flak on that.
Sadhguru: No. No flak. A huge amount of appreciation. Handful of people because this has become the unfortunate situation in the country, this is not the first time. Every time I speak something, there is a group of people who are always waiting to mischievously edit those things and put out in a provocative way. Well, when you are having a conversation you say many things, in that you cut out two sentences, and say this is what he said, it's just ridiculous stuff. So, I don't respond to those things simply because it's obvious they are motivated people. Leaving that aside, about feminism, after that I tweeted two more, because somebody that I knew, some very prominent women wrote to me and said Sadhguru, why is it coming out like this? These are not your words. I said these are not my words, they are editing it and doing this, so I again tweeted twice so that it's clear to them. See, essentially, what I said was, if money is the only value in a society, what is masculine will rule whether you like it or don't like it. I am talking masculine, not men. So if masculine rules, if women want to be successful, what do they have to do, they have to shed their feminine nature, act like men. This is a sad society. If you just beat out all feminine nature in this world, this will become an ugly world. So I said, if money is the only value, now they are saying, should we not earn money? Who said you should not, but that should be the basic value, the economy should be the basic value of our life. Right now, it has become like this, if you say a big man in Delhi, do you mean to say he has got a big brain? Do you mean to say he has got a big heart? No, he has got a big pocket. So, the only thing we are referring to, when we go like this in a society, we will destroy the feminine nature, unless there is equal opportunity for all aspects of life in a given society. There is value for everything, only then feminine will flourish.
NDTV: Sakshi has a question...
Sakshi: Namaste Sir. Sir, we all saw that how you and Baba Ramdev drove your Ducati in the Isha Foundation Campus. So, your liking towards your bikes is since your teenage or is this something you developed over the years? And don't you think that a Yoga guru riding a bike in India is much a cooler topic and then even you should think about your dressing sense in that case?
NDTV: Bikes keep you young Sadhguru Ji...
Sadhguru: See, I have been riding, I started riding a scooter when I was 9 years of age. And I rode from Mysore to Bangalore, 140 kilometres when I was twelve and a half or thirteen years of age. Without my father's knowledge in the evening, I took the scooter all the way to Bangalore and brought it back, a big adventure. So, me and two-wheels, they just go together.
NDTV: And you have slept on your motorcycle many nights as well.
Sadhguru: I have criss-crossed India on my motorcycle. For about 7-8 years, I literally lived on a motorcycle. So, since then I have been so busy, not much opportunity, here and there I ride off-road. When I get the opportunity, when I get the motorcycle I will repeat a little bit. So, that day, you know when I go for work inside the ashram, it's easier to ride a two-wheeler than drive something. So I was at work, he was supposed to come at 4 o'clock, then at 3:40, they said he is already here. I was supposed to go and pick him up in my car, instead I went there on a motorcycle. Just for fun I said, why don't you come and he was game, so he sat on the motorcycle and we just rode. And nobody captured this video. What happened was, see this is the thing of the day, people who are standing along the road, many of them in their cell-phones caught this video. So someone took all these bits and pieces, put it together and made a video of it. There was no one camera following this motorcycle because it was just an ad-hoc thing.
NDTV: Baba Ramdev came on our programme, we called him the Yogi Billionaire. I think, as you made the point, being a Yogi is about what's inside you and not about these outside labels at all.
Sadhguru: Being a Yogi means both physically, mentally, consciousness-wise you are absolutely flexible.
NDTV: Sadhguru Ji, thank you so much for being on The NDTV Dialogues and congratulations, because you are getting an award from the President for your role, of course in rural sports, which is something of a major focus also being covered.
Sadhguru: This whole thing started off because I encountered some very caste related opposition when I was doing some work and it took me some time to realise because I was making them, forcing them to eat together, different caste groups, whatever in their tradition it says you can't eat with this caste or that caste. I tried and things broke out. Certain amount of friction happened. Then I came up with the idea, let them play together. Nowhere in the tradition does it say that they should not play together. There is no book to say that you cannot play together. Something, somewhere says you are not supposed to eat together, but playing together there is no restriction. They started playing, they forgot their caste and creed and everything.
NDTV: That's wonderful. Sports as a unifier
Sadhguru: So a ball can change the world. And today, it's a massive process. Last year, we did in collaboration with UNICEF. This year on 9th of December, young people should come and participate in this. 9th of December, we have an event where from all rural Tamil Nadu and some from Andhra Pradesh, nearly 38,000 players are involved in the tournament.
NDTV: Fantastic. I applaud this initiative, you are reaching out to young people of India. I think that really is our future. Thank you Sadhguru Ji for being part of The NDTV Dialogues. Thank you.
